Harmonic minor scale mode names.

[Claudi]

Hi, everyone!
Is there anybody around here who could tell the names of the modes in the melodic minor scale?
In the forums for lessons the melodic minor scale modes where explained but not those of the harmonic minor.

Thanks in advance. I learn so much here and am so satisfied!

[m78w]

Hey Claudi,
Here are the "technical" names for the Harmonic Minor modes acording to Gary Keller's book which is kind of becoming the standard in teaching these days.

1) Aeolian #7 - A B C D E F G# - AmMaj7(b6)
2) Locrian #6 - B C D E F G# A - Bm7b5/Bdim7
3) Ionian #5 - C D E F G# A B - Cmaj7#5
4) Dorian #4 - D E F G# A B C - Dm7(#11)
5) Phrygian #3 - E F G# A B C D - E7(b9,b13)
6) Lydian #2 - F G# A B C D E - Fmaj7(#9)
7) Mixolydian #1 - G# A B C D E F - G#dim7

These names may seem odd at first, I know I found them strange, but once you look at the notes it makes sense. The system is designed to relate these modes to the modes of the major scale, so instead of learning a whole bunch of new scales/modes, you just change one note from the major modes you already know and you've got your harmonic minor modes.

MW

[Claudi]

Thank you, Matt!
Sorry I wrote melodic minor instead of harmonic minor on the first line. You understood me well.
I knew how to play these modes but was curious about their names.

[jonasfixe]

By the way, do you have the names for the melodic minor modes?

Thanks

Joao

[m78w]

Sure, here's the names for the Melodic Minor modes according to Keller:

1) Dorian #7 - C D Eb F G A B - CmMaj7
2) Phrygian #6 - D Eb F G A B C - D7sus(b9)
3) Lydian #5 - Eb F G A B C D - Ebmaj7(#5)
4) Mixolydian #4 - F G A B C D Eb - F7(#11)
5) Aeolian #3 - G A B C D Eb F - G7(b13)
6) Locrian #2 - A B C D Eb F G - Am7b5(#9)
7) Ionian #1 - B C D Eb F G A - B7alt

Hope that helps!
MW

[jonasfixe]

Originally Posted by m78w

Sure, here's the names for the Melodic Minor modes according to Keller:

1) Dorian #7 - C D Eb F G A B - CmMaj7
2) Phrygian #6 - D Eb F G A B C - D7sus(b9)
3) Lydian #5 - Eb F G A B C D - Ebmaj7(#5)
4) Mixolydian #4 - F G A B C D Eb - F7(#11)
5) Aeolian #3 - G A B C D Eb F - G7(b13)
6) Locrian #2 - A B C D Eb F G - Am7b5(#9)
7) Ionian #1 - B C D Eb F G A - B7alt

Hope that helps!
MW

Thanks, it helps a lot.
And it is surprisingly easy to memorize, because the alterations are the same (#7, #6, #5 etc) and the names start on aeolian for harmonic (A mode, of course) and in Dorian (D mode) for melodic minor. It makes a lot of sense.

Joao

[m78w]

Yeah I agree, it eliminates a lot of the thought process because everything is related to a major scale mode, and they are in the same order as the major scales modes, just starting on Aelian.

Here are the modes of Harmonic Major in case anyone is interested.

1) Ionian b6 - C D E F G Ab B - Maj7(b6)
2) Dorian b5 - D E F G Ab B C - Dm7b5(#9, #13)
3) Phrygian b4 - E F G Ab B C D - E7(b9,#9,b13)
4) Lydian b3 - F G Ab B C D E - FmMaj7(#11)
5) Mixolydian b2 - G Ab B C D E F - G7(b9)
6) Aeolian b1 - Ab B C D E F G - Abmaj7(#9,#5)
7) Locrian b7 - B C D E F G Ab - Bdim7

MW

[Claudi]

Hi, everyone!

Matt, and the modes names for the diminished and the whole tone scales are the same ones? And those for exotic scales as well?
But I remember that in one of Dirk's and yours lesson you explained very well the melodic minor's modes and they had different names such as superlocrian and things like that. Now I don't remember the names.

Bye!

[m78w]

There are really no names for the modes of the diminished and whole tone scales as those scales are "symmetrical" and do not produce modes. If you start on any note in these scales:

Chromatic
Whole Tone
Diminished
Augmented
Tri-Tone

The interval order is the same for every note in the scale, therefore there are no modes persay.

For the Melodic Minor modes, yes there are many other names, the ones I wrote above are just the ones that Gary Keller uses in his book called Scales for Jazz Improvisation. It's being used a lot now in universities to try and codify the names of scales and modes.

Here are some other common names for the modes of the Melodic Minor scale:

3rd mode: Lydian Augmented Scale

4th mode: Lydian Dominant Scale, Dominant #11 Scale, Mixolydian #11 Scale

6th mode: Locrian natural 9 scale

7th mode: Super Locrian, Diminished Whole Tone, Altered Scale and many others.

MW

[Claudi]

Hey, Matt!
Thank you for your super-quick response. I'm not going to go on with this subject. I was just curious about these names.
Stay well!

[jonmiddleman]

The names given by Keller for the Harmonic Minor scale seem to be based off of a fixed do philosophy. The names I studied in college for the Melodic minor are Dorian b2, lydian aug, lydian dom. ect. Is there another set of names that are based off of movable do for the Harmonic minor?

[reidiiius]

Kosalam
Ab B C D Eb F G
Neptune opposition Mars

Hemavati
F G Ab B C D Eb
Saturn opposition Jupiter

Keeravani
C D Eb F G Ab B
Mercury opposition Sun

Vakulabharanam
G Ab B C D Eb F
Sun opposition Mercury

Dharmavati
F G Ab B C D E
Saturn opposition Jupiter

Sarasangi
C D E F G Ab B
Mercury opposition Sun

Chakravakam
G Ab B C D E F
Sun opposition Mercury

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by jonmiddleman

The names given by Keller for the Harmonic Minor scale seem to be based off of a fixed do philosophy. The names I studied in college for the Melodic minor are Dorian b2, lydian aug, lydian dom. ect. Is there another set of names that are based off of movable do for the Harmonic minor?

I'm not sure I quite understand this question. The Keller definitions simply state the intervals of the scales relative to some root. They don't say that this root has to be a specific note (e.g. Ab). It could be whatever root you're interested i at the moment. Isn't that the definition of movable-do solfege?

[SteveCarter]

Originally Posted by Claudi

Hi, everyone!
Is there anybody around here who could tell the names of the modes in the melodic minor scale?
In the forums for lessons the melodic minor scale modes where explained but not those of the harmonic minor.

Thanks in advance. I learn so much here and am so satisfied!

Take a look at the Scale Mode Syllabus on my site:
http://www.frogstoryrecods.com/lessons_overview.html
(scroll down to the bottom of the Guitar Lessons page and click the Scale Mode Syllabus link).
It presents some common names for the modes of melodic and harmonic minor, as well as some other scales, and compares each mode with the parallel major.

Steve

[SteveCarter]

The most commonly used mode of the Harmonic Minor scale is the Mixolydian-flat-9-flat-13.
Here's a video showing how to get started in applying that mode to improvising on "Blue Bossa."

YouTube Video

Steve

[Giggedy]

I've found it helpful to think of the 5th mode of melodic minor as Mixolydian b6.

[reidiiius]

Charukesi
G A B C D Eb F
Sun opposition Sun
in Taurus

Vachaspati
F G A B C D Eb
Saturn opposition Moon
in Cancer

Natakapriya
D Eb F G A B C
Jupiter opposition Mercury
in Libra

Gourimanohari
C D Eb F G A B
Mercury opposition Jupiter
in Sagittarius

[Alex Carvalho]

you see, i think, when naming modes from other scales we should not just compare them to the major modes, but also take into consideration the CHORD built in that degree. thats why I think the 5th mode of the harmonic minor should be mixolydian b9 b13 instead of phrygian #3, also the 5th mode of the melodic minor should be mixolydian b13, cause both modes are for dominant chords... (while phrygian #3 and aeolian #3 are paradoxes, minor modes with raised 3rds...) terminology... what a nightmare...what is important is the sound

[jonmiddleman]

I also learned that the 5th mode of melodic minor is mixolydian b6. I spoke to my old jazz professor, and he seemed to think that the names posted were based off of a fixed Do as apposed to a moveable Do. The Melodic minor clearly uses the minor scale as it's tonic. All the Harmonic minor names seems to use the relative major as it's tonic. I agree, it is important to identify scales to the sounds of the chords they apply to, but at some point we have to regard these as a centralized tonic-dominant relationship.

[Alex Carvalho]

Good point, I wanted to know where those names come from, thanks. Another reason I and other teachers prefer mixo b13 , locrian 9 etc (instead of mixo b6 and locrian 2) is that those characteristic notes are available chord extensions that are usually represented with compound intervals (odd numbers), but again, terminology will always be hard to standardize...

[Ollie]

Something is confusing me a bit. What is the equivilant scale with a # degree to E phrygian b4? I was playing it over an augmented triad but I couldn't work out how to put in terms of a particular mode with one sharp degree rather than one flat.

[JulezMJ]

Originally Posted by m78w

Hey Claudi,
Here are the "technical" names for the Harmonic Minor modes acording to Gary Keller's book which is kind of becoming the standard in teaching these days.

1) Aeolian #7 - A B C D E F G# - AmMaj7(b6)
2) Locrian #6 - B C D E F G# A - Bm7b5/Bdim7
3) Ionian #5 - C D E F G# A B - Cmaj7#5
4) Dorian #4 - D E F G# A B C - Dm7(#11)
5) Phrygian #3 - E F G# A B C D - E7(b9,b13)
6) Lydian #2 - F G# A B C D E - Fmaj7(#9)
7) Mixolydian #1 - G# A B C D E F - G#dim7

These names may seem odd at first, I know I found them strange, but once you look at the notes it makes sense. The system is designed to relate these modes to the modes of the major scale, so instead of learning a whole bunch of new scales/modes, you just change one note from the major modes you already know and you've got your harmonic minor modes.

MW

Arent the modes for the harmonic minor scale include (according to Jody Fisher) harmonic minor, locrian natural 6th, ionian #5, dorian #4, phrygian dominant, lydian #2 and locrian b4bb7 ? I guess there are many names depending on the scale you derive the from

[JulezMJ]

how do you get a sharpened 1st degree since its the root of the mode... :S

[JulezMJ]

Originally Posted by Claudi

Hi, everyone!
Is there anybody around here who could tell the names of the modes in the melodic minor scale?
In the forums for lessons the melodic minor scale modes where explained but not those of the harmonic minor.

Thanks in advance. I learn so much here and am so satisfied!

Melodic Minor, Dorian b2, Lydian #5, Lydian Dominant, Mixolydian b6, Aeolian b5, Altered Scale (Super Locrian Mode),,but however you can apply different names. for example the second mode of the melodic minor Dorian b2 is ...

1, b2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7 which is the same as phrygian with a natural 6th

[Claudi]

Hi, JulezMJ.

On that post I made a mistake and meant to say "Is there anybody around here who could tell the names of the modes in the Harmonic minor scale?"

I wrote that post 2 years ago and since then I learned all the modes in all scales and I can apply them easily, but I learned that these mode names are not too useful since many people call them in many ways. I just play them without thinking how I have to call them. After having learned them and analized note per note and interval by interval that's what I really needed, but I thank you for your response.

[ajrdileva]

Here's a great chart for structures, sub structures and modes.
"Decoding the Circle of Vths" Chart and the mCircle free online software to find all modes and names and subsets.

[sekeri]

Originally Posted by Claudi

Hi, everyone!
Is there anybody around here who could tell the names of the modes in the melodic minor scale?
In the forums for lessons the melodic minor scale modes where explained but not those of the harmonic minor.

Thanks in advance. I learn so much here and am so satisfied!

E Harmonic Minor
E Aeolian
F# Locrian
G Ionian
A Dorian
B Phrygian
C Lydian
D Mixolydian

Please also check: melodic minor scale modes and harmonic minor scale modes

[Claudi]

Thank you, Sekeri. But I wrote this post 2 years ago.

[bobsguitars09]

Mixolydian #1? how do you explain the #1 to someone?

[gersdal]

Originally Posted by bobsguitars09

Mixolydian #1? how do you explain the #1 to someone?

I guess it may not be the right terms and names according to theory books, but these are the names I prefer (not that I often use modes).