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#1
08-12-2008, 10:43 PM
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 Jazz on a Nylon String Classical Any thoughts or, are their artists that played any form of Jazz on such a guitar. I believe that Gypsy jazz might be a possibility.
__________________ __________________________ Jazz-Blues-Classical>>Eclectic Last edited by gremboul : 08-12-2008 at 10:44 PM. Reason: typo     |
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#3
08-12-2008, 10:59 PM
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| Charlie Byrd's the man... Joao Gilberto |
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#4
08-12-2008, 11:09 PM
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Thanks I'll try Charlie Byrd...I really like expressing myself on classical guitar. I did here a performance of Joao Gilberto a long time ago. I think it was the Girl from Ipanema.
__________________ __________________________ Jazz-Blues-Classical>>Eclectic |
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#5
08-13-2008, 01:57 AM
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Check out Thomas Dutronc. He even plays a grande bouche nylon string. Very popular right now ... has famous parents and has jammed with some gyspy jazz heavies.
This one is poor audio/vid quality, but you get an idea of his playing solo.
Another guy associated with gypsy jazz, but not limited to it, is Sylvain Luc. Amazing, extremely talented and creative guitarist. * Not gypsy, but intense ... Lionel Loueke! He was in Herbie Hancock's band for a while, but I think he's solo now.
* Joao Gilberto is the man in bossa, but also check out Luiz Bonfa & Bola Sete. Tons of great Brazilian players. * Gene Bertoncini has some remarkable jazz on nylon string. | ||||||||||
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#6
08-13-2008, 08:57 AM
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barry galbraith was recorded often on nylon, but i can't think of any albums wth him playing solely nylon...earl klugh is a hell of a player who does a lot of nylon work--check out "naked guitar" and avoid his smoother stuff. he also backed up benson on some of his mid seventies stuff (white rabbit, body talk) he plays nylon and george rips. some of this stuff definitely sounds "dated" but it's excellent. i really didn't think gypsy jazz would work on a nylon--until i watched that you tube. i always associate nylon strings with darker, warm sounds and gypsy jazz with brightness and snap. goes to show ya never know. |
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#7
08-13-2008, 10:47 AM
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| Gene Bertoncini Ralph Towner Pat Metheny John Scofield (album Quiet) John Abercrombie John McLaughlin all these guys play Nylon string on regular basis.
__________________ Jake Hanlon - Jazz Guitarist, Composer and Educator Website - Buy Music - Youtube - STFXU - Thomastik-Infeld |
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#8
08-13-2008, 10:22 PM
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| nylon jazz I can really only play nylon now after years of classical playing. I think it sounds great for Jazz too! Not only the strings but consider the wider neck, flatter neck, different action, etc........ I also like the fact that I can play Bach and Hoagy Carmichael without changing instruments. Lots of nail care involved though. Sailor |
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#9
08-13-2008, 11:40 PM
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I go through heavy nylon phases, but I generally avoid nail care. Can't stand the filing, the buffing, the polishing, the looks -- and I prefer flesh on string. If I need more attack, I just go Willie.  |
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#11
08-14-2008, 02:24 PM
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| Thank you stackabones for posting that Lionel Lueke vid. I love his playing and I hadn't seen that video before. It really blew me away. Regardless, I don't really think I'd consider him to be playing a classical guitar. Even though it's a nylon string, I'd like to see a wider neck and a soundhole before I'd consider it a classical. I love godin guitars (which is what he's playing). Actually, on second thought I might be just seeing the neck to be thinner than it is because his hands are so big that the neck looks smaller, but I do know that some godin nylon string models are built with a thinner neck. P.S. I need one of these: Godin Guitars Godin Guitars Sidenote: - How awesome would it be to see John McLaughlin playing one of those. It'd be perfect for Shakti, and after all, he does play a Godin already. |
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#12
08-14-2008, 02:46 PM
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| Great videos, thanks for posting them
__________________ herbsmith.blogspot.com |
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#13
08-15-2008, 12:36 AM
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There's a second part to that vid where he talks about the paper technique and how he makes his guitar sound like a talking drum. Amazing stuff. The whole terminology thing is weird, classical & nylon & gutbox. I don't like the term classical guitar ... too restrictive, though it may help for easy communication (imo it's like calling a Gibby 335 a jazz guitar or whatever). Bossa nova guys play "classical" guitars, but usually have nothing to do with the classical rep. Nylon-string works well, but it sounds kinky. Gutbox is my preferred term. Nobody expects Bach to come out of gutbox, so you're free.  |
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#14
08-15-2008, 09:22 AM
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| hey, a couple of asides on the nylon string thing... 1. i just put savarez strings (red card) on mine (a la patrie) wow. savarez strings, where have you been all of my life...finally, a G string that doesn't sound "shy." 2. i've been digging lionel loueke for a while now--his latest record on obliqsound is great--although the name of it escapes me...but out of curiosity, how do you pronounce his last name? my friend, who is nigerian, said it would probably be "lou-kay"--but he also said the name loueke doesn't look nigerian to him, so his pronounciation may mean nothing...does anyone know from which country lionel hails? 3. what's the compromise been on the nails thing for everyone? i love nails on a nylon string, but i still do most of my playng on an electric guitar, where i DON'T want the nails sound--the soft skin on string thing is my bread and butter. sometimes i wish i could retract my nails like a cat. but that would be really weird. okay, i better drink another cup of coffee. |
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#15
08-15-2008, 09:41 AM
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| The Savarez strings are great. D'Adarrio makes a set with some kind of composite G string that rings pretty nicely too, plus they are cheaper. I play nylon string guitar exclusively (a Ramirez, 2CWE single cutaway with a Fishman pickup). Arguably, the nylon inherently has the tone, through a good amp and speaker, that electric jazzers are trying to emulate. (I know some might disagree, but I did say "arguably". I don't do it when I'm playing classical, but sometimes when I'm playing chord-melody standards, I hold my index finger up against my thumb and play single note passages as if I'm using a pick. Does anyone else do this?
__________________ herbsmith.blogspot.com Last edited by Herby : 08-15-2008 at 09:44 AM. Reason: the key to writing is re-writing! : ) |
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#16
08-15-2008, 09:50 AM
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| Since I'm not as proficient with fingerpicking as I am with a pick, I sometimes use an 'alterante' picking, thumb-index, on the lower strings rather than the more traditional im. As you say though , never on the classical pieces. I am working on improving my right hand though  SLOWLY.Last edited by JohnW400 : 08-15-2008 at 10:02 AM. |
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#17
08-15-2008, 10:01 AM
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2. Loueke is from Benin. I'd always guessed that it was "lou-ek-ay", but I also heard "lou-ee-kee" so I don't really know. Saw a recent vid and it looks like he's play the Yamaha Silent Guitar. 3. Use a thumbpick with or without fingerpicks. I like what a thumbpick does, but I've sat down and got it down. I usually just play fingerstyle (without nails) or I hybrid pick (inherited from my tele chicken pickin ways). |
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#18
08-20-2008, 03:13 AM
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| Do you guys like/know these kind of things? YouTube - Yamandú Costa - Choro - Escorregando (Nazareth) YouTube - yamandu costa e armandinho - Apanhei-te cavaquinho ???????????????? YouTube - Raphael Rabello - Luiza
__________________ ------------------------------ www.daniloaurelio.multiply.com ------------------------------ |
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#19
08-20-2008, 08:44 AM
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Regarding nails though, I keep mine relatively short... just so I can barely see some nail when I look at my fingertips from the palm side of my hand; about 1/16th of an inch. You may want to have the left side of the nails slightly longer also (left side when viewing your fingers in playing position). I also use the Pepe Romero type hand position and attack on the strings. The finger plucks the string at an angle, somewhere around 60 degrees. This way the string starts at the flesh and left edge of the nail and slides along the nail and leaves at about the midpoint of the nail. This creates a rounder tone and is similar in concept to the unusual way that George Benson uses a pick. Perhaps experiment with this finger picking techinque on your electric. |
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#21
08-20-2008, 10:32 AM
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#23
04-16-2009, 07:16 AM
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| Gonna have to take my time today checking out all those Romero L. videos. Thanks Randall. My absolute favorite Nylon String player is the late Brazilian master Baden Powell. While normally playing sambas and bossas and other Brazilian musics, he also had a thing for jazz and jazz standards. I just listened to a very nice rendition of his of *ATTYA* yesterday. Well worth further investigation. |
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#24
04-16-2009, 09:03 AM
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| Good of you to post all those links Randall. I had never heard of those guys but they have a new fan in me. Herby
__________________ herbsmith.blogspot.com |
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#25
04-28-2009, 03:11 PM
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| Joe Pass did some recordings with a nylon-string ("Unforgettable"). Course he played just about every guitar around at one time or another. Don't forget the guitar trio with John McLauglin, Paco DeLucia and Al Dimeola. For awhile McLaughlin played nylon string more or less exclusively, often with a pick. Ottmar Liebert, the Gipsy Kings and a whole bunch of nouveau flamenco artists play nylons. Moving further afield, Chet Atkins played and helped develop an electrified nylon string sold by Epiphone. So, depending on your definition of "jazz" there are a lot of nylon pickers out there. I have had a couple of A/E nylon string guitars, currently using an Alvarez AC60SC--great guitar for the money. One thing to watch for is the width of the fretboard and whether it's radiused. A narrow-width guitar is fine for jazz fingerpicking, barre chords, runs, etc., but can make it almost impossible to play a lot of classical guitar repertoire. I know this from experience. |
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#26
04-29-2009, 12:44 AM
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| YouTube - Round Midnight This guy is truly a master in playing nylon string jazz, although he knows his way on steelstrings and archtops too. He nowaday's play's a nylon string Godin. This evening i'm meeting him for a private lesson and looking forward to it. |
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#27
04-29-2009, 02:28 AM
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 To nail or not to nail I've recently posted a short Monk on nylon, Ruby My Dear in the thread about Monk... My bedroom guitarist level of musicianship and complexity of playing aside, is it obvious from the tone that I am playing with really short nails, flesh-and-nail, with the right hand in a "proper/accepted/widespread" late XX century classical position (as opposed to Segovia's too much bend in the wrist to make knuckles parallel with strings = RSI)? Probably isn't obvious. Sounds like a Spanish guitar. But it is p 1mm, i/m/a about 0.5. There is a "bite" to my attack. I'll forever remain mystified by endless classical fingernail struggles. Flesh-and-shortish-nail gives control, articulation, nice tone and is applicable on steel strings without sacrificing anything (like breaking nails as steel is pretty nasty to longer nails). And it is even available to bedroom guitarists, let alone pros. |
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#28
04-29-2009, 04:02 AM
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| short nails..... ....that's just what I have, as short as possible. One of the reasons is the reduced chance of breakage, but as I continue to play with them, they feel just right for me. Other than a bit of care with a file to minimise their snagging on something, there's nothing else to be done. There's no way anyone could set a correct 'standard' length..... each player is unique, both in style and their desired sound. I read recently a few tips on nail care....a good though obvious one is to get into the habit of opening doors, cupboards etc with the non-picking hand - avoid the situations in which breakage often occurs.
__________________ If only..... |
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#29
04-29-2009, 04:48 AM
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| ken hatfield fine player, wrote a unique book: Amazon.com: Mel Bay Jazz and the Classical Guitar Theory and Applications: Ken Hatfield: Books his website: Ken Hatfield plays one of his originals: YouTube - Ken Hatfield , "Most Every Day"
__________________ "If I hit you up 'side your head you won't rush!" -- Thelonious Monk www.randalljazz.com |
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#30
04-29-2009, 05:31 AM
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| to Gazda.... ....I tried editing my post, but the facility wasn't working. I forgot to add that I listened to the Ruby piece you posted. Just to say you seem very much to be going in the right direction with your playing. Thanks for sharing it.
__________________ If only..... |
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