Play What You Hear: Thoughts

[bluewaterpig]

I'm really considering buying this course. I'm a fairly advanced player I guess, in graduate school getting my master's degree for jazz performance, so I wanna make sure this course is worth it.

Has anybody purchased the full course? Does it get fairly advanced?

Any comments would be a help. Thanks in advance.

[mr. beaumont]

I'd imagine if you're in a master's program, by this point, if you're going to do any learning online it'd be much more beneficial to have someone give you some real feedback--a la jimmy bruno or something.

[Stackabones]

If you feel the need to purchase this, why are you in grad school for jazz performance?

[bluewaterpig]

Yea I agree.

What's really discouraging is that I replied to the e-mail that I got from Chris Standring (who created the course) to ask him some questions before I purchased and I got a daemon error because the e-mail doesn't exist.

That shows just how personal the course gets I guess.

[bluewaterpig]

Originally Posted by Stackabones

If you feel the need to purchase this, why are you in grad school for jazz performance?

To learn as much as possible? I don't understand what you're asking. I don't "feel the need" to purchase it, it just looked interesting and I'm wondering if it's a good course. Getting information from different points of view is always a good thing.

[FatJeff]

I've looked at this course as well, and decided against purchasing it; it looked a little too canned and simplistic to me. I'm in my last year of a bachelor's program in jazz performance, in case you are wondering how our levels might compare. I feel like I've got my hands plenty full with all the stuff I'm being assigned these days. :-)

[Stackabones]

Originally Posted by bluewaterpig

To learn as much as possible? I don't understand what you're asking. I don't "feel the need" to purchase it, it just looked interesting and I'm wondering if it's a good course. Getting information from different points of view is always a good thing.

Has your education up to this point been so lacking that you can't figure out whether or not this would work with your learning style? Do you not have a mentor to guide you through purchasing such items or to help you improve your playing? Does your university not teach what is taught in this course? Will grad school cover this material -- and if it does, why waste the money?

Time and money are factors in grad school. Learning as much as you can is important, but if you spend time learning what isn't beneficial (and believe it or not -- not everything you learn is beneficial), then you have lost time on studying what could actually be important to your field.

You asked for thoughts, but it appears you only want encouragement for you purchase.

[jckoto3]

How does this course differ from the tried-and-true advice of learning to sing melodies and apply that singing to the guitar? Is it about creating melodies, or playing "internalized" melodies that are heard in one's head, or... what?

I imagine there is some systematic approach to the course, but I really don't know what the course is about in general.

[Sharks]

Have you read Hal Galper's 'Forward Motion'? Someone on another thread recommended it a while ago and you might be interested.

Hal would say that you already play what you hear - your problem is that you don't hear the hip stuff and hear it forcefully enough (I'm talking about a figurative 'you' - I have no idea what you personally hear in your head).

Anyway, could be worth a look, and if you're a grad student then you'll be able to adapt the concepts to your own practice regimen pretty easily - could be a less risky (cheaper?) option.

If you're interested, search 'Hal Galper' on youtube and you'll turn up half a dozen results (too many to post here) where he pretty much lays down the key concepts of his book.

[bluewaterpig]

Originally Posted by Stackabones

Has your education up to this point been so lacking that you can't figure out whether or not this would work with your learning style? Do you not have a mentor to guide you through purchasing such items or to help you improve your playing? Does your university not teach what is taught in this course? Will grad school cover this material -- and if it does, why waste the money?

Time and money are factors in grad school. Learning as much as you can is important, but if you spend time learning what isn't beneficial (and believe it or not -- not everything you learn is beneficial), then you have lost time on studying what could actually be important to your field.

You asked for thoughts, but it appears you only want encouragement for you purchase.

Lol whoa man, did you have a bad experience in school or something? I'm just asking if anybody has any experience with this course and if they liked it or not.

Different approaches can give you a well rounded method for yourself, it's as simple as that. Have you ever had an amazing teacher and then taken lessons with somebody else and realized ok, they aren't as talented, but I still learned something new from them that I wouldn't have if I never went outside the box? By your method of thinking, you would read one method book and say ok well I learned a lot from that, why should I waste my time reading any other book? If you learn one really great way to comp a ii-V-I, do you ignore any other possibility? You're missing out on a lot of great stuff with that attitude.

Just because you've already been taught a concept by one person, another person teaching the same concept might have a better way of looking at it, or a better way to get it under your fingers, or a better exercise for it, or a better application for it, etc. No matter how good a person is, you can always learn something new from a different point of view. I don't really understand why you're so opposed to somebody asking if anybody has any previous experience with something I might want to try.


And no, I am not going to call my guitar teacher and ask them if I should buy an online course, is that something that you do?

[Gramps]

I wouldn't have any issues with asking my instructor about another course or learning method.

I looked into that course a couple years ago and decided that if I worked on my vocabulary I'd also be working on ear training and I believe that ear training is what that course is about.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by bluewaterpig

And no, I am not going to call my guitar teacher and ask them if I should buy an online course, is that something that you do?

You could.

I encourage my more advanced students to learn anyway they can--lessons with someone else in a different style, piano lessons, etc. And who knows, he might have some insight into the course...

[dmorash]

I bought that course along with many others at one time or another. Honestly it's been a long while since I had a look at it so bear that in mind.

I'll dig it out if I get a chance and see if I can review it a bit but as I recall there were exercises at the beginning of the course where you would sing scales up and down one string and other clever devices where you could'nt rely on your memorized patterns and such to do them - you had to be able to hear it before you played it.

There came a point in the course where learning vocabulary was introduced. My interest in it waned a bit at that point as I wanted to get my vocabulary from my heroes if I could.

The premise of the course is pretty cool - play what you hear - we all want to be able to do that.

[Dookychase]

Steve Masakowski, Professor at the Univ. of New Orleans has a book out titled, Jazz Ear Training-Learning To Hear Your Way Through Music.

This is something that might interest you. He plays in a group called Astral Project.

[fumblefingers]

a scholarly person should always be hungry to do more research. learning is a life long process.

full time graduate school generally lasts two years.

i have the course (along with a thousand other books )

if you really want to know more about it send me a PM and I will get back to you in about a week after i have a little bit of time to review it. i'm pretty busy these days...

[fep]

Originally Posted by Dookychase

Steve Masakowski, Professor at the Univ. of New Orleans has a book out titled, Jazz Ear Training-Learning To Hear Your Way Through Music.

This is something that might interest you. He plays in a group called Astral Project.

I went through the 4 semester ear training college course. I wish they would have had a jazz ear training course instead. I'd like to see ear training be more akin' to notes/intervals in relation to the chords of the moment. For example, exercises sight singing lines through the cycle of 5ths while relating the tones to each chord instead of an overall key center.

I'm going to check that book out.

I saw Astral Project at the New Orleans Jazz Festival, they are awesome.

[Nuff Said]

Before you buy any books or courses, start with learning to play simple melodies by ear, then move on to more difficult melodies and then chords.

This you tube video at 3:20 shows the technique:

EAR TRAINING: How to Play What You Hear in Your Head. - YouTube

You could try and play these Nursery rhymes by ear:
http://www.nurseryrhymes4u.com/NURSE...ICANDSONG.html

Nuff Said

[TruthHertz]

Play what you hear? Hmmm, where would Beethoven have gone had he taken this course? What would Evelyn Glennie have done with her life if she'd spent her time with this course?
Seriously, I'd looked briefly into this, I do empathize with your desire to always learn more. The course did not warrant my continued study, but that's a matter of individual learning styles and an awareness of my finite time. I found George Kochevitsky's book on the Art of Playing Piano to be MUCH more useful. And Hal Galper's wonderful insights that can be seen on YouTube.
Here's a sample:

YouTube Video

There's much more. I won't clutter the bandwidth, good luck
David

[princeplanet]

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

Play what you hear? Hmmm, where would Beethoven have gone had he taken this course? What would Evelyn Glennie have done with her life if she'd spent her time with this course?
Seriously, I'd looked briefly into this, I do empathize with your desire to always learn more. The course did not warrant my continued study, but that's a matter of individual learning styles and an awareness of my finite time. I found George Kochevitsky's book on the Art of Playing Piano to be MUCH more useful. And Hal Galper's wonderful insights that can be seen on YouTube.
Here's a sample:

There's much more. I won't clutter the bandwidth, good luck
David

Thanks for that. I wish Hal was my teacher.

[Reg]

To be honest... if your a grad student... you should already be very able to hear what your playing and have a few understandings as well.
If your playing jazz... you need to be able to hear;
- Blue Note influences...
- Modal Interchange
- Melodic Minor, how used in jazz...
- Modal methods of guiding or controlling function and harmonic movement.
How these concepts influences harmony and melody, which may be different than tri tone functional harmony.
Somewhat boils down to being aware of different guiding principles or rules that determine how and why Jazz harmony and melody does what it does.
Obviously these concepts work in conjunction with traditional harmony, but are always in place as compared to being applied.
If your not aware and are unable to hear what you play... it's more of a reflection of the educational system, (as well as yourself).
There is obviously more, rhythm etc... but these four concepts open most jazz doors, which will help you be able to hear jazz.
It's great to get other opinions... but at some point.... you need to get it together for yourself. Reg

[markf]

Originally Posted by fep

I
I saw Astral Project at the New Orleans Jazz Festival, they are awesome.

heard steve on youtube, baritone guitar, WOW.

[JonnyPac]

Yay Hal Galper! Forward Motion is a great book.

I have nothing to say about the course, but perhaps... expensive? Seems loaded with too much promise as well. Might be cool though.

Galper is down-to-earth. I dig that. Bert Ligon is great to for theory and line-building. A few books a a library of recorded jazz should do it.

[Bigmagic]

I will say Chris has sent me an email survey recently about a new course he's working on. While I haven't purchased his course I have no doubt it contains some great information.

[cpike]

I bought the course several years ago. Haven't looked at it in a long time, and it must not have been too compelling, because I can't think of anything I learned from it. Probably plenty of useful stuff in the course, but I never really connected with it...

[Rickh]

Originally Posted by bluewaterpig

I'm really considering buying this course. I'm a fairly advanced player I guess, in graduate school getting my master's degree for jazz performance, so I wanna make sure this course is worth it.

Has anybody purchased the full course? Does it get fairly advanced?

Any comments would be a help. Thanks in advance.

Looked at my friends copy. It's a pile of crap.

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by Rickh

Looked at my friends copy. It's a pile of crap.

Wow, what a well-thought out response. Very helpful.

[Rickh]

Ok Mr. Sarcy. Having another read through it now. The first part is major scale exercises from scratch (over 60 pages of major scale patterns.) Then a short section on harmony.

Then it's book 2. Not too bad, a generic jazz method. Many licks and melodic patterns. The bulk of it is eighth note II V I licks just like the Aebersold II V I book. There are 8 examples over jazz standards at the end.

It's not a bad book as a generic method book and it's good that it's guitar specific. It would be ok for a beginner but absolutely no use to a nearly graduated jazz masters degree student. The music examples are so pixelated/low res that it's uncomfortable to read, pretty lazy. To be honest the main issue is that there is nothing specific in it or at least no revelations about ear training so the title is all hype. $97 is a lot of money for a tatty pdf and some poor playalong tracks.

There's so much better stuff out there, like the Bergonzi series.

[Rickh]

P.S. It's funny how two people here have bought it and can't even remember the book

[richard vandyne]

hey Bluewater- I didn,t answer your first reguest for info on this program but now i have some current info that may be helpful. This is my story. About a year ago i purchased this program and was really at the beginnings of my jazz quest so i really didnt have a real appreciation for the material I let the program sit all this time and to be real honest with you-I wasn,t very impressed although i really didn,t have the experience to judge it fairly. recently I wanted to look over the program again since you brought it up and to my surprise-there is a new program out and since i was an original purchaser i recieved the new updated version and am pleased w/what i see.All the lessons in the program have a musical example to hear and also a way for the learner to play along.THis is great for me because now i can more understand what the lesson is trying to get across.As the program says-it is more geared to the intermediate player than to the really advanced because they are trying to bring the player along slowly and give them a good understanding of how jazz is put togeather. further along in the program it seems to get very complicated.Covers a lot of material and is teaching you how to use your ears to help you improvise. If i am not mistaken they will give you your money back if you are not happy with it. For me I am getting an awful lot of information that i havent been able to get anywhere else and at a decent price. You seem to be well on your way to playing but there is always something to learn and help you along on the journey. Not trying to influence you one way or the other so its your call.If you need anything else don,t hesitato to ask>