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I'm really hoping you guys will hang with another couple of etude studies. My final thoughts on this current one by Friday then I think I'm ready for another one.
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07-05-2017 01:24 PM
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I'm fighting myself towards the last four chords. There are volta brackets for alternate endings, but I can't really spot the difference between the first to third ending and the fourth ending. Did I miss something?
Originally Posted by TruthHertz
What about the last chord (C7) in bar 24? In the score it is positioned above the last eight note--does it mean, that the C7 will sound under the "and" of 4?
Robert
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Originally Posted by diminix
I don't think you missed anything. They are identical and I guess he's just suggesting that it's a loop exercise - he could have used repeats, I suppose.
It is interesting that the whole exercises ends on the same phrase it starts with. The ending &4& are the same notes as the &4& pick up at the beginning only played an octave up. I suppose it's a lesson in context. The same idea is used as a pick up to start the etude off but then used as an ending and it works perfectly for both.
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That goes with the playalong that comes with the book. It plays 4 times so if you're reading from the page, you have the music to the etude technically repeating 4 times. Same thing each time. That's all. Originally Posted by diminix
David
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One thing that I got out of these last measures of the piece are the many ways one can create contrast, create episodes and arcs even within a steady stream of notes using space, rests, changes of direction and leaps (wide jumps between phrases). It's one way this etude really demonstrates the tools that we can be aware of when creating our own solos.
We'll look at measures 19 to the end. That's the I7 chord going into the final II V I.
On the C7 the phrase begins with a breath, and a chromatic approach from below and scale approach to the C arpeggio. This is a reminder to me that phrases don't need to begin on the root on the first beat, this little phrase uses rhythm and enclosure to outline that simple and strong arpeggio that starts on the third beat.
Great exercise to isolate an arpeggio, or scale passage and practice notes that lead to it on the first beats of the measure.
Try using a metronome, and make a loop for yourself, starting a scale or chord run from a strong note on the third beat. Then
The A7 D minor7 measures
Following the descending line of the previous measure with another parallel line a descending rhythmic pattern that sets up the run up the arpeggio to the root. Those remaining notes, the Bb and G# are connected to that D min7 measure. When you get to the D minor, a short phrase with strong notes actually carries a lot of weight. Think about that.
Try creating measures that combine pickups and approach notes to a crucial note, and letting a change of direction highlight the strength of that chord. How would this measure sound with a rest on the 4th beat? How about an eighth rest and a single eighth note pickup to the next measure? Play around with the phrase until each option has a unique sound and feel to your ear. Then play them with a sound that has purpose.
That D min measure has a pause on the second beat and then it sounds like it's starting the G7 measure from before the bar line. This is a sound worth exploring: Crossing the bar line; anticipating the change before the first beat.
The G7 measure.
That chromatic approach to the chord tone begun in the D min measure now jumps to a series of approach notes E going to the D chord tone, C, A finally finding the chord tone B and root. These are passing notes and upper and lower neighbors shading and guiding the ear to the all important chord tones.
When they're played fast, they're a lot of fun and complex to hear all these twists and turns. But to PLAY them, to think that fast, you're going to need to know the essential notes and the embellishments.
To make this measure your own, try to isolate the chord tones and come up with different "leading in" notes. Then try it with different chord tones, connect them with their own embellishments that lead to those chord tones.
Do this with a metronome so your beats are clear. It'll take time but you'll be putting together your own collection of licks that are truly your own. If you find a sound you like, practice them until they're your own.
Final two bars.
E min7 A7 measure is chord tones ascending. This can sound good but you can really change the impact with rhythmic figures. Triplets are beautiful to use because they swing with the tied-triplet feel that swing eighths are made of.
You'll see that the A7 arpeggiates from the 3rd of the chord. If the sound of a chord tone is close to the note that ends the previous chord, it gives a strong sense of continuity to a line and that chord's sound doesn't even need to have the root in it.
The last measure has a chromatic line, full of chromatic tension in a small intervallic space followed by a run up to the note your ear has been waiting for, the root C.
Try to look at this etude as a library of options, and study them for their impact on your ideas of options.
I was hoping this thread would be a way that we could start to see the soloing process as not re-creating lines that you're not in control of, but really becoming aware of the same tools that the great soloists are drawing from.
I hope this has been fun, and I hope that given the time to practice thoughtfully, your own sound emerges each and every time you find the need to create something unique.
DavidLast edited by TH; 07-26-2017 at 01:38 AM.
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I'd been thinking of the things that go into the soloing process. From the approach of the bar line to the double bar line, there's a huge range of thinking from panic to uninterested patterned boredom and so much in between. Last night a well known sax player was playing a gig in town, and we were talking casually while everyone was leisurely setting up the bandstand. It was Jerry Bergonzi, and it's always a master class to listen to the way he puts together a fresh solo every time he picks up the horn.
When I asked him if he would ever be able to describe what he considers most important in ordering phrases in a solo, he thought for a little while and said: There are many things to think about but here're a few choice words that are always important.
Direction. Are your lines going up? Going down? Several in a row in the same direction? Angular? Using dissonance or consonance? How long does a line go?
Rhythm. Think rhythmically.
Singing. Does your line sing? Can you sing your line? It has to have a singing quality to it.
Good things to think about, before you overthink...
David
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I'm just catching up after a bit of time away (and therefore haven't read the last page or so of comments), but I just want to say that I'm still working through/with this material and even though the thread seems to have cooled off a bit, I hope it doesn't fizzle. I think it's one of the most valuable threads going.
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Is anybody getting the itch to move on? I don't want to rush anybody, but I'm happy with what I got out of this first etude. I will definitely revisit this one again after more exploration. In inclined to start an additional study for some contrast and expansion.
looking over the tunes I'm going to suggest Fullerton Ave. it's another blues and might make a good companion to this one although it's quite different and contains some jazzier lines. Only a suggestion of course. I'll go with wherever David takes us.
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I didn't glance at this thread before, but I think that's a really nice way of putting what I have been trying to do, and part of the reason why I've adjusted my own approach to transcription over the past couple of years. Originally Posted by TruthHertz
I'd like to point out that when it comes to transcription, for many players the solos of Dexter Gordon, Hank Mobley and Sonny Stitt have had a similar role to how you are talking about Fishman.... Looking at those etudes they share the same basic 1950s common practice language.
Lastly, what I liked about Barry Harris's approach is exactly that molecular aspect you are talking about. I'm not familiar enough with Wittgenstein to comment on that link, but I'm interested to learn more about your take on it.
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OK I'm going to take the section David used and do a Barry Harris version of it (as I understand it) - this is not to 'second guess' or try to supersede anyones approach in anyway at all - even if that were possible, but highlight the way BH works and how it approaches things very much from a scale based perspective. This is primarily a pitch analysis - but it takes in rhythm.
If there's Barry people who see mistakes in what I've done, please let me know. I'm in the process of working through this stuff myself, and this analysis gives me a way of working through it.
In some ways this analysis might seem a bit weird, peverse even. The wordiness is largely down to how much i need to explain how it works.
Prelim remarks
In Barry land we base everything on scales. These scales in general have three types (not always, but most often) - major, minor and dominant (or 7.) The last is in its simplest form is the mixolydian mode (which BH calls the dominant scale), but can also admit tritone sub and related minor (i.e. mm mode) possibilites.
OK
19-21 are C7 (running into A7 - more on that later)
22-24 are G7
23 is C7 into A7
24 is G7 resolving to C7 on the 4+ push
So, 2.5 scales :-)
This is based on the fact that we ignore the II chord (Dm7, ) and relate Em7b5 to C7
I'm a brit so bar = measure
Bar 19
F F# A G - this is what Barry Harris would call a 'surround' - it's three notes around a target chord tone, in this case the G (5) of C7. This is the fact that we use two lower chromatic neighbours and one diatonic upper neighbour. We start on the and of 1, so we need three surround notes to make sure we hit the chord tone G on beat 3. Use two surround notes and you push that resolution. How does that feel?
The arpeggio that follows is Am7 on C7. We could think of it as a C6, and in fact tonic chords in blues are often expressed as 6th chords as they are in other tunes - just cos it's blues doesn't mean it has to be C7, and the 6th sound can be heard throughout Charlie Parker's music.
However, we can view it as an arpeggio of the scale - in this case BH's terminology is that it is a chord. A chord is a set of four notes ascending or descending in thirds (three notes would be a triad.) In this case a chord descending from the 5 of C7. This is different because the harmonic analysis is not really touched on. We don't care that it's an Am7 or a C6. The important thing is that it is a melodic device through the scale. The effect of this may be to create a harmonic sound, but we don't necessarily focus on what that chordal sound is. We just let it play out.
I like this because it allows a focus on the melodic construction of the line without feeling that I have to be always aware of the harmonic implications of the line. That can emerge for the listener. The only harmonic analysis as an improviser is the very simple chunked one of 'I am playing C7.'
Bar 20 Em7b5 A7
OK this is classic Barry territory. We are still thinking mostly in C7, as Em7b5 relates to C7, but we do some Barry magic to accommodate A7.
The scale here is C7. The phrase starts on F on the beat and descends to C#, which we will pretend is a C for now (I'll explain later.)
Only thing is - we don't have enough notes! We have three 8th notes to get from F to C and four scale steps. You could use a leap of a 3rd, but instead we cram in a 16th note to make it work. Alternatively, we could have used a triplet, but that sort of thing is not actually all that common. Triplets more commonly tend to be turns or triads.
So, we hit beat 2, and we now do some BH magic. This running the C7 scale to the third of A7. What does that mean? Well the C7 scale is (descending) Bb A G F E D C and the third of A7 is C#, so what we do is raise the C to a C# and now we are playing the A7. In fact we are playing the A+7(b9) sound in scale form - but again we don't need to know that, or the name of the scale, just that it works out.
We run a line up from the C#. We lead up to the Bb and G# create a nice chromatic to the note A, 5th of the next chord. We have five 8th notes in total to get from C# to Bb in the scale, so a four note chord wouldn't do it. Here, we use a triad (2 thirds) and two steps to get there (again ignoring the obvious harmonic analysis might seem perverse, but bear with me.)
A word about resolution to chords - no more than a note or two of the target chord is required. Here it's A and F, 5 and 3 of Dm. Job done.
As David points out the last three 8ths of this measure really belong to bar 22 - the G7 bar. But - scale wise, Dm7 and G7 are handled as the same thing anyway, so scalically, no difference.
I'm going to cheat and pass over this bit simply cos it's not very Barry. We can understand all these notes as belonging to the G7 scale (apart from the passing A#) and note that a passing tone between 2 and 3 is really common (Blue Monk?) and point out the thirds at the end of the line.
Because bar 23 is juicy BH goodness. Scale is C7 (relates to Em7b5, remember?) Chord on the third of C7, down a step to the third of A7, and a chord up. That rhythm in the first half, off beat followed by triplet is classic bebop. If it were me I might have used an F# instead of an E.
The line works if it's all 8ths starting on beat 1, but it swings a lot less.
Bar 24, G7 scale now (Dm7 G7) run the scale from 9 of the scale to the 7.
We start on 9, on the beat, so according to the added note rules, we can add 0 or 2 added notes. If we add 2, we put them between 2 and 8, and 8 and 7 of the scale, or in G7, between A and G, and G and F. Which is what happens here.
We fudge the remaining scale a little so we can get to the C on the 4 'and' - G and B obviously strong choices on G7. Could have been anything though. That said, semitone B-C is strong. Surround B-D-C (or even B-Db-C) is also strong.
So this might seem perverse and weird if you are an arpeggios/chords guy, but using this basic scale/melody BH approach I could improvise a load of variations on these basic lines varying the way I play those scales rhythmically, what passing tones I choose to add, what beat I start phrases on, what beats I end phrases on, without altering the harmony at all. Once the mechanics are mastered, it's very flexible.
I have also found the generalised approach to harmony is also very helpful - you end up playing a lot of changes, but not really thinking about what they are in terms of chord symbols etc.
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