Tremolo picking, check, fast fingers for legato, check, coordination??

[Roscoe T. Claude]

Discipline-Discipline-Discipline: That's what it's going to take for me to make more music and pander less to full scales. For one the the full scale runs and multiple sweep arpeggios are, shall we say, done, and way too rock and roll for jazz. I use economy picking a lot and some sweeps because that's how I learned to play, but I'm convinced that there's a creative way to use these techniques. I don't like the sound of alternate picking in jazz unless it's on an acoustic playing gypsy jazz or jazz flamenco fusion. Lastly, has anybody else noticed that many of the best players in jazz and rock use mostly legato in their phrasing: In rock I guess they do it for speed but in jazz I suppose it's to sound like a horn: besides the legato I want to learn phrasing from Coltrane, Davis, and others. Do you think I should forget the tab books and try to learn it all by ear? I'm indecisive...

[boatheelmusic]

Learn the major scale in five positions, learn diatonic harmonized chord progressions and arpeggios in each position, record the above and report back in 2-3 years when you've completed this step.

Then ask these questions.

[cosmic gumbo]

So, I really am lacking in my tremolo picking, just wasn't thinking about it enough.

[matt.guitarteacher]

So, I really am lacking in my tremolo picking, just wasn't thinking about it enough.

very swingin'...

[MarkRhodes]

And yet when Manouche players do it (and they do do it), it swings....

[pamosmusic]

Discipline-Discipline-Discipline: That's what it's going to take for me to make more music and pander less to full scales. For one the the full scale runs and multiple sweep arpeggios are, shall we say, done, and way too rock and roll for jazz. I use economy picking a lot and some sweeps because that's how I learned to play, but I'm convinced that there's a creative way to use these techniques. I don't like the sound of alternate picking in jazz unless it's on an acoustic playing gypsy jazz or jazz flamenco fusion. Lastly, has anybody else noticed that many of the best players in jazz and rock use mostly legato in their phrasing: In rock I guess they do it for speed but in jazz I suppose it's to sound like a horn: besides the legato I want to learn phrasing from Coltrane, Davis, and others. Do you think I should forget the tab books and try to learn it all by ear? I'm indecisive...

Bop and swing guys like Herb and the Gypsy guys alternate a lot ... Pat Metheny slurs all the time ... Wes is right in the middle. They all happen to swing.

Transcribe a solo or learn a bebop head and try to imitate the articulation of someone you like.

[christianm77]

Bop and swing guys like Herb and the Gypsy guys alternate a lot ...

No. Probably around 60-75% downstrokes.

The secret of manouche/old school technique as I understand it is actually triplet picking.

D U D D U D D U D

Also, end every phrase on a downstroke.

This illustrates the technique really well. Turns out I was playing this lick wrong haha:

When playing very fast, more like economy picking. But that doesn't take much practice ;-)

IMO GJ picking actually sounds a lot smoother, hornlike and more flowing than alternate picking.

[christianm77]

I don't like the sound of alternate picking in jazz unless it's on an acoustic playing gypsy jazz or jazz flamenco fusion.

Yeah I agree. Don't alternate pick then.

[Groyniad]

that is a guitar sound? on the tremelo picking vid

that is a sound people use to play music????

he is not making that sound because his guitar is horribly busted and someone is forcing him to make the video by threatening to kill him if he doesn't???

its one of the ugliest sounds i've ever heard

thank god i know nothing about rock and its derivatives

thank god

[christianm77]

that is a guitar sound? on the tremelo picking vid

that is a sound people use to play music????

he is not making that sound because his guitar is horribly busted and someone is forcing him to make the video by threatening to kill him if he doesn't???

its one of the ugliest sounds i've ever heard

thank god i know nothing about rock and its derivatives

thank god

I think ugly is the idea.

The mechanics that I would use for tremolo picking in a jazz environment would be totally different. But I wouldn't be palm muting.

[Groyniad]

ugly had better be the idea

otherwise there is NOTHING to say for it

[Hep To The Jive]

I don't think ugly is the idea. There's people who love this kind of tone, rock/metal/punk whatever... On this particular video it's not that great, but the idea is not ugly by any means. There's some mean guitar sounds were produced with distorted tone, and in jazz too! Mean and beautiful.

[destinytot]

I don't think ugly is the idea. There's people who love this kind of tone, rock/metal/punk whatever... On this particular video it's not that great, but the idea is not ugly by any means. There's some mean guitar sounds were produced with distorted tone, and in jazz too! Mean and beautiful.

Loved Hiram Bullock.

[Groyniad]

mean and beautiful is a bit of a stretch - whatever you're talking about

[unknownguitarplayer]

I posted this in another thread recently, but the (double stop?) tremolo picking at 2:41 seems relevant.

[pamosmusic]

No. Probably around 60-75% downstrokes.

The secret of manouche/old school technique as I understand it is actually triplet picking.

D U D D U D D U D

Also, end every phrase on a downstroke.

mmmmk ... point taken ... did say "a lot" and not "entirely" or "most" ...

either way - my point is intact, no?

[christianm77]

mmmmk ... point taken ... did say "a lot" and not "entirely" or "most" ...

either way - my point is intact, no?

Yeah I'm being a stickler and a pain in the ass :-)

But as I teach it starts with all downstrokes, and then I allow the student to make upstrokes in special cases. Seems to work.

[Bosko]

"I want to learn phrasing from Coltrane, Davis, and others. Do you think I should forget the tab books and try to learn it all by ear?"

Tab is ok for understanding basics - how to play scales etc.

Transcriptions in standard notation make it readily apparent what is being played over changes.

Recordings give you all the info you need for phrasing - it's too complicated for tabs and standard notation.

[NoReply]

The way I like tremolo when it's got soul.

[MarkRhodes]

Troy Grady on Eddie Van Halen's tremolo picking technique

[Hep To The Jive]

The way I like tremolo when it's got soul.

The tone to die for, great playing! The only thing- there's no tremolo anywhere in this clip

[Hep To The Jive]

Troy Grady on Eddie Van Halen's tremolo picking technique

It might be the gold standard of tremolo! Can't believe he uses a thin pick?!

[mr. beaumont]

Actually, for tremolo picking, I find a thin pick is ideal, or at least, it must be flexible...that little "snap" back and forth seems to help me.

Of course, I hardly ever use tremolo picking, and everything else I play sounds like crap with a thin pick, so I won't be switching anytime soon.

[christianm77]

Troy Grady on Eddie Van Halen's tremolo picking technique

Looks kind of similar to this:

[MarkRhodes]

Looks kind of similar to this:

There is a resemblance in the rotation of the hand, though the pick isn't held the same and Eddie is playing much faster. (I think Eddie's use of the second finger to oppose the thumb, rather than the index, makes a significant difference.)