Seth Lover Pickups - Warm Sound?

**vashondan** · 03-21-2018, 10:33 AM

Decided to replace the neck pickup in my Ibanez AS 153 with a Seth Lover. Had listened to lots of demos before buying and thought they sounded great. Still do but after continuing to listen to demos have started to wonder if they may be warmer (or is it more on the low end tone wise) than I really need. Different demos with diff guitars and amps of course but wondering how those of you that are using them might characterize them and what kind of equipment you’re using.

Thanks!

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**omphalopsychos** · 03-21-2018, 10:47 AM

Hmm. I'm surprised that the Seth is low-end-heavy to you. These tend to be relatively scooped and brighter humbuckers than most. What are your amp and volume settings?

I play mine through a Princeton Reverb and a Tweed Harvard - sounds great in both.

I feel like I always ask this: have you experimented with pickup height?

TH · 03-21-2018, 11:06 AM

And string gauge? And pick type?
Gosh, you're asking a question a lot of people ask, and most people will give you great descriptive answers that strangely mirror the descriptions everyone finds in magazine articles and online sources.
I have the Duncan 59 in a 6 string and a Jazz in a workhorse guitar, strangely enough, they're both perfect for the instruments they're in. Not good for recommendations though, I know.
Sad to say but what you can do with a pickup, a guitar and an amp is up to you. Example: So many people hate the Duncan Jazz. All sorts of great floral descriptions of how bad it is. I just got a guitar back from long term loan to a friend. It's a 7 string semi that I lent him. I thought "This is NOT inspiring, it's trebly, harsh and there's no warmth to it. Ugh!". But I knew that guitar from before. So I changed some things back.
New strings, round back to half rounds.
Higher gauge. 11 back to 12 with a 13 top.
Change action, a little more height, a little more bite.
Adjust pickup height, down a little, balance bridge and treble.
Play it through my little modded Champ.

THERE's the sound I love. Same pickup, different reality. Let the Lover get you into the ball park, adjust your set up and live with it for a while making adjustments. See what your hands make of it. Play REAL music and see if it inspires you to play better. AND if you don't like it, return it to Duncan. They graciously allow that. It's allowed me to find what is right for ME despite what my initial reactions were and what everyone else in the armchair critic universe says.

Sounds unhelpful, I know. You want a certain sound. "Warm" is you with a guitar that makes you say "I can't put this down". Seth Lovers might work for me. Jazz works better. You'd probably hate it. Make the bottom line decision based on all the things you do with a guitar and Do it.

David

**rpguitar** · 03-21-2018, 11:08 AM

I have them in an Eastman T59/V, which is a 335 type guitar. They are airy, lively, and on the bright side. Excellent, responsive pickups with good compression. Definitely not too warm - but definitely a warm component amidst the other qualities.

**blille** · 03-21-2018, 01:00 PM

It really depends on your gear. When you tweak a piece of your gear you may need to adjust the rest.

That said. Worse case scenario, if you want it brighter that's a simple magnet swap away. Don't even need to unsoldered the pickup.

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**GNAPPI** · 03-21-2018, 03:51 PM

After buying innumerable amps over the years (since the 60's) I found it cheaper and more satisfying to buy an amp that naturally has "warmer" "darker" less "trebbly" tone or whatever you want to call it that affects ALL of my gits rather than jerk around with pup changes. Why? Because some say this about a pickup, and others disagree and I'm not about to emulate one tone seeker I read of on another site that by his own admission has tried hundreds of pickups, that's too weird.

Anyway, at less than $200 the Polytone 102 does all that and is the best money I've ever spent on improving my sound. I wish I could find another because even the SD self admitted bright pups like the SD "Jazz" or a complete shit git are very usable in it. My other amps now sit and wait for the Polytone to crap out :-)

**vashondan** · 03-21-2018, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by omphalopsychos

Hmm. I'm surprised that the Seth is low-end-heavy to you. These tend to be relatively scooped and brighter humbuckers than most. What are your amp and volume settings?

I play mine through a Princeton Reverb and a Tweed Harvard - sounds great in both.

I feel like I always ask this: have you experimented with pickup height?

I haven't received the pickup yet but was rather gathering from demos I'd listened to non of which included the pickups with a Princeton Reverb.

As many have suggested I went through a lot of tweaking with the current pickup ( amp settings, pickup height etc.) before I got what I wanted from the current set. I'll likely have to do the same with the Seth Lover but in general I was curious how others characterized what their experience was with their equipment. BTW, with the PRRI I have the Vol at 5-6, guitar in input one and bass and treble at 1.

**vashondan** · 03-21-2018, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by GNAPPI

After buying innumerable amps over the years (since the 60's) I found it cheaper and more satisfying to buy an amp that naturally has "warmer" "darker" less "trebbly" tone or whatever you want to call it that affects ALL of my gits rather than jerk around with pup changes. Why? Because some say this about a pickup, and others disagree and I'm not about to emulate one tone seeker I read of on another site that by his own admission has tried hundreds of pickups, that's too weird.

Anyway, at less than $200 the Polytone 102 does all that and is the best money I've ever spent on improving my sound. I wish I could find another because even the SD self admitted bright pups like the SD "Jazz" or a complete shit git are very usable in it. My other amps now sit and wait for the Polytone to crap out :-)

I don't disagree with what you say about amps and the PRRI can be really bassy with a humbucker and the amp setting above 1 ymmv. On the other hand that shimmer and chimeyness is also exacerbated when I'm playing higher strings up the neck IMHO. I know that there are many parameters here but I can't help wanting to compare my experience with that of others even though I know that there is folly in that as well.

**vashondan** · 03-21-2018, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

And string gauge? And pick type?
Gosh, you're asking a question a lot of people ask, and most people will give you great descriptive answers that strangely mirror the descriptions everyone finds in magazine articles and online sources.
I have the Duncan 59 in a 6 string and a Jazz in a workhorse guitar, strangely enough, they're both perfect for the instruments they're in. Not good for recommendations though, I know.
Sad to say but what you can do with a pickup, a guitar and an amp is up to you. Example: So many people hate the Duncan Jazz. All sorts of great floral descriptions of how bad it is. I just got a guitar back from long term loan to a friend. It's a 7 string semi that I lent him. I thought "This is NOT inspiring, it's trebly, harsh and there's no warmth to it. Ugh!". But I knew that guitar from before. So I changed some things back.
New strings, round back to half rounds.
Higher gauge. 11 back to 12 with a 13 top.
Change action, a little more height, a little more bite.
Adjust pickup height, down a little, balance bridge and treble.
Play it through my little modded Champ.

THERE's the sound I love. Same pickup, different reality. Let the Lover get you into the ball park, adjust your set up and live with it for a while making adjustments. See what your hands make of it. Play REAL music and see if it inspires you to play better. AND if you don't like it, return it to Duncan. They graciously allow that. It's allowed me to find what is right for ME despite what my initial reactions were and what everyone else in the armchair critic universe says.

Sounds unhelpful, I know. You want a certain sound. "Warm" is you with a guitar that makes you say "I can't put this down". Seth Lovers might work for me. Jazz works better. You'd probably hate it. Make the bottom line decision based on all the things you do with a guitar and Do it.

David

I actually appreciate others experiences. I learn from reading about them so thank you.

**mad dog** · 03-21-2018, 05:31 PM

I agree with Rpguitar's description. At least in semi-hollows. The Seth Lovers are really nice sounding p/us. Warm, as in easy on the ears, not harsh or flat sounding. Can be bright, easily controllable via tone knob rolloff, can twang in the middle position. Very much like my favorite of all humbuckers, the ones in my '66 ES-335.

Too much low end is not something I associate with warmth per se. More a function of output, higher output type p/us I think. If p/us come across that way, adjusting the neck p/u lower on the bass side usually handles that, plus attention to the bass knob of whatever amp you're using.
MD

**Longways to Go** · 03-21-2018, 10:14 PM

I did the Seth Lover swap into an Ibanez a few years ago. Still sounded like an Ibanez.
Seth Lover is a bright clear sound IMO. It didn't begin to change the too clear and bright top end sound to that nice warm top end we all seem to want.

I prefer the Gibson 57' classic to the Seth Lover by a mile. Also, I do like the SD Jazz neck pick up.
I've done a fair share of pickup swapping, but I hope I'm mostly done with that.
I don't really think a great pickup is a cure for the fundamental guitar tone.

Personally, I prefer an ES 175.

**Hep To The Jive** · 03-21-2018, 10:27 PM

'Nice warm top end'- that sounds exactly like Dimarzio 36th PAF.

**mtown** · 03-21-2018, 10:33 PM

I just purchased a G&L Bluesboy with a Seth Lover. Compared to my 335 and Les Paul with 57 classics it sounds a bit brighter. It could be the longer scale length. I wasn’t completely sold on it a first but after adjusting the pickup height I’m liking it very much. It has a clear definition of the lower strings without sounding muddy at all. The midrange is nice but not as pronounced as the 57 classics.
These things are hard to describe and someone else might hear something totally different. Just my observations and taste. I don’t plan on replacing the pickup for something else if that means anything. I really like the tone I’m getting sans pick. Nice, warm, and clear. It does inspire me to keep playing so I that’s all that really matters to me.

**Ray175** · 03-22-2018, 06:52 AM

As always, when changing pickups, play about with the height (overall) and pole pieces (individual) - these little adjustments can make a massive difference to the tone of the pickup. I usually take 3-4 weeks to find the "ideal" settings for my ears and playing style.

**vashondan** · 03-24-2018, 06:36 PM

Took my guitar to have the Seth Lover installed. Couldn't wait to pick it up. Guy did a rush job for some extra sheckles. He miswired the Seth to the 3 way switch on the AS153. One of the toggle positions doesn't work and the other two don't sound like their supposed to and the pickup sounds crap.

**blille** · 03-24-2018, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by vashondan

Took my guitar to have the Seth Lover installed. Couldn't wait to pick it up. Guy did a rush job for some extra sheckles. He miswired the Seth to the 3 way switch on the AS153. One of the toggle positions doesn't work and the other two don't sound like their supposed to and the pickup sounds crap.

Sorry. I hope you get your extra sheckles back! It’s hard to miswire a humbucker set in a 3 way. My guess is that he grounded the wrong wires. The original pickup likely used a different color scheme so you probably have it out of Phase. One would think he should have tested that it sounded at least.

**vashondan** · 03-24-2018, 06:46 PM

This 3 way is specifically for the neck pickup. It’s not for combos of the two pickups.

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**blille** · 03-24-2018, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by vashondan

This 3 way is specifically for the neck pickup. It’s not for combos of the two pickups.

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Get it now, for doing series/parallel or series/single? That’s a bit easier to mess up

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**vashondan** · 03-24-2018, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by blille

Get it now, for doing series/parallel or series/single? That’s a bit easier to mess up

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All 3 is my understanding.

TH · 03-25-2018, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by blille

... My guess is that he grounded the wrong wires. The original pickup likely used a different color scheme so you probably have it out of Phase. One would think he should have tested that it sounded at least.

Yeah, there was a time when Ibanez had worked with Duncan, who uses the same wiring colour scheme as Gibson (black ground), but then they made an exclusivity agreement with DiMarzio who goes with green for ground. I'd suspect that the tech did a straight wire to wire replacement which would do what your guitar seems to be doing (hmmm, been there, done that... how do you think I know so much about wiring colour conventions?).
Duncans always come with really detailed and surprisingly illustrative wiring diagrams when you buy the pickups. They're available on line too.
Something like this for the neck pickup:
Seth Lover Pickups - Warm Sound?-screen-shot-2018-03-25-9-45-52-am-png

Seth Lover Pickups - Warm Sound?-screen-shot-2018-03-25-9-45-52-am-png

Yeah vashondan, bring it back. He skipped the test phase of the repair where this should've been caught. Caught and put right. Have him finish the job and don't pay for any further work. He should pay you for the lesson.
It'll sound great when it's done right.

David

**vashondan** · 03-25-2018, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

Yeah, there was a time when Ibanez had worked with Duncan, who uses the same wiring colour scheme as Gibson (black ground), but then they made an exclusivity agreement with DiMarzio who goes with green for ground. I'd suspect that the tech did a straight wire to wire replacement which would do what your guitar seems to be doing (hmmm, been there, done that... how do you think I know so much about wiring colour conventions?).
Duncans always come with really detailed and surprisingly illustrative wiring diagrams when you buy the pickups. They're available on line too.
Something like this for the neck pickup:
Seth Lover Pickups - Warm Sound?-screen-shot-2018-03-25-9-45-52-am-png

Yeah vashondan, bring it back. He skipped the test phase of the repair where this should've been caught. Caught and put right. Have him finish the job and don't pay for any further work. He should pay you for the lesson.
It'll sound great when it's done right.

David

Thanks for the clarification and diagram. I was going to get it set up soon but will do it now. I’ll feel more comfortable now taking it elsewhere ( Emerald City) to get that done and let them fix the wiring as well. It needs the setup (string rattle and buzz when fretted and really low action). I think sweetwater missed a few points in their 55 pt inspection.

Dan

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**morroben** · 03-25-2018, 11:37 AM

I realize it's not for everyone, but this is a good example of how some basic soldering skills (along with setup skills) can save you time, money, and headache. I've done repair work most of my adult life and 90% of it is stuff that the customer could have done if they had just bothered to try. Drilling the hole for the switch might be a little scary the first time, but that's true of a lot of good things in life. As far as the wiring part, you could have done at least as good as the tech did. And if you got it wrong the first time, you would fix it, just like the tech is going to do. Just something to consider.

Back to the OP...I have Seth Lovers in 2 guitars. A Heritage 535 and a PRS Mira semi-hollow. They're my favorite humbucker when potting isn't needed. Like all good buckers they're sensitive to height adjustment, as well as volume and tone control adjustment and amp settings. I like to use my volume and tone controls, so these are great for me...if you're a 'leave everything up' kind of person, you might be less satisfied.

"Warm" is hard to nail down. The highs aren't too shrill, so that can mean warm. The lows don't get too muddy, but one person's muddy is another person's warm, so maybe they're not warm? I don't know. They sound good. I know that.

To me, a lot of the charm of the Seth Lover is in the lack of potting. At loud volumes, feedback could be an issue, but I rarely find myself playing at those volumes and when I do I just use a different guitar. But when the feedback thing isn't an issue, I really prefer unpotted pups. They're a bit livelier and less compressed.

Hope you enjoy your new pickup! I expect you will.

**vashondan** · 03-25-2018, 12:01 PM

Thanks morroben. Your point is well taken. I eventually learned how to do the pickup work on the strats and teles I’ve owned but I wasn’t ready to jump in with a semi hollow a 3 way switch and a humbucker. Like you said it probably would have been fine but not this time.

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**vashondan** · 03-28-2018, 07:46 PM

This is exactly what happened.

**Mich** · 04-08-2018, 10:59 PM

I doubt between Seth Lover and Jazz.. Anyway there is two different options - single conductor cable and 4-conductor. Which one do I need if I want to connect one only pickup (neck) to hollow buddy archtop?
Thanks
P. S. After looking the diagram above looks like I need single conductor - there is only two knobs on my guitar Volume and Tone.. Just want to know for sure.