Did Gibson stop producing the ES-175?

[nopedals]

I never understood the mystique of the 175. If you wanted to design an electric guitar from scratch, a full depth 16 inch body seems like buying extra feedback without getting any tonal benefit. When it came out, there wasn't a lot of competition at that price point, so a lot of 50s guys had them, so there is the guitar hero deal, but every other maker trims an inch or so off the body depth when they make hollow body guitars. The location of the neck pup is another odd feature; if it made much sense, other makers would do it.

I am pretty OK with full depth 17 inch guitars. Not optimum for live use, but the older ones had a borderline OK acoustic tone, a nice feature in the old days when a guy might have just one guitar. But 16 inches? I don't get it.

I know this post is heretical here, and won't take offense at a rebuttal.

[mr. beaumont]

No offense taken, but the funny thing is, everybody over the years has attempted to "improve" on the 175, and yet everybody still wants the 175 sound. Because nothing else really sounds like a 175.

Also, the pickup location isn't that weird, the 175 has 20 frets and a flat fretboard end, the pickup location put the pole pieces at about the "hypothetical" 24th fret, which is pretty common.

[vinnyv1k]

From 2013-2016 the regular 175 was not manufactured. Only the 1959 VOS was available. In 2016 the regular 175 returned better than ever with subtle improvements. Gibson is in bare bone keep alive status right now. They have cut almost all there 335 variants also. If Gibson can survive there financial storm or after a restructure trust me the 175 will return. It will always be a Gibson bread and butter model.
The 175 IMO is still Gibson's 4th best seller. LP, 335, SG, 175.

[Bluedawg]

Was there a 175 pause in the 80s?

Gibson was looking pretty shaky there before Henry J and Slash pulled them out of the dumpster

Even Fender was making most if not all of its upper end guitars in Japan for a year or two or three in the 80s.

[rpguitar]

1986 seems to be the only year from which it's very rare, if not impossible, to find an ES-175. That's the year when Henry J. bought Gibson. There are a couple of Google hits but none (yet) where I seem able to verify a serial number.

[rlrhett]

And in my opinion:

When obscure guitarists trash talk successful guitarists on internet forums, they make fools of themselves

Wait, what?!! People were trash talking The Nuge’s guitar PLAYING?!!!

I missed that, or else I would have gotten upset too. You are right. People on this forum should be taken down a notch. His complex an haunting harmonies! And his improvised melodies. It is not for nothing that he is called the “Carlie Parker” of rock guitar! People should know their place.

Boy, I bet whomever it was sure feels foolish now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Bluedawg]

What about the L5? 1923-2017

The L5, Super 400, Byrdland, etc. line also seemed to take a pause in the 80s IIRC


I'm probably wrong ... but Gibson seemed to limit production of several product lines in the 80s

[wintermoon]

The L5, Super 400, Byrdland, etc. line also seemed to take a pause in the 80s IIRC


I'm probably wrong ... but Gibson seemed to limit production of several product lines in the 80s

nope, correct

[Greentone]

Hmm? I just checked production figures and you guys are correct. No L-5 guitars were shipped in 1980-1984 (when the Kalamazoo factory closed down). I hadn't realized this. I do remember 1980s L-5 CES guitars (especially the first one I saw with the wooden insert on the tailpiece), but I didn't remember that there was a hiatus in manufacture. Makes sense, now that I think about it.

Deal is, Zavarella's in Arlington/Alexandria still had one or two in inventory during that period, so I never noticed. (I believe that Chuck Levin's and Veneman's also had some in stock. I _know_ that Veneman's had a Byrdland...or maybe it was Giant Music?)

[rpguitar]

On Reverb right now, there's an '80 and an '81 L-5CES listed, complete with huge volutes. You can verify the serial number on the '81. Gibson actually has no shipping records for that time period; it's not that they didn't ship any L-5s though.

I have never seen one from '82-'88, but definitely from '89 and onward.

[Greentone]

I was in Werlein's Music in New Orleans (on the foot of Canal Street) back in '88 or '89 and saw the first L-5CES I'd ever seen with the wood insert on the tailpiece where the silver insert should go. It was a nice, dark sunburst model.

Of course, I took some time and had them take it down and let me play it. It played great and the sound was just super. My only complaint was that the finish seemed rougher, to me, than any other new L-5 I had played--the color was fine, it was just that the top coat seemed rough. I guess Henry J was still training up his sprayers in Tennessee, at that point.

Still, it was a great guitar.

[jzucker]

it doesn't meet Henry's "lifestyle" criteria.

[Stringswinger]

The 330 and 275 are in production, but the 175 has been dropped.

Let's face it guys, jazz guitarists are largely irrelevant today.

[Greentone]

I agree completely with Stringswinger. If the 275 has eclipsed the 175, jazz is dead to Gibson.

[wmachine]

The hiatus in 175 production is in part due to the uncertainty re: Gibson's future (which, IMO is being milked by the business press for clicks and giggles); the slump in prices is half correction/half CME blowout fallout; in the long term, I believe production will resume, adjusted for a more realistic relationship to demand.

I'm not so much in agreement with your assessment of the causes, but in agreement with the result. Gibson has skipped years in other production models, so no no present offering does not mean the end. The reason to me seems to be simply supply and demand.
1. Re Gibson's future's impact, other Memphis models are continuing.
2. The slump in prices? Why not simply supply and demand? They have rolled out other Memphis 2018 models with higher prices than previous years.
3. The CME blowout? That was not really a "result", that was Gibson's own doing. CME states the blowout was due to Gibson overproduction. Sure there may be other factors, but I see no evidence or reason not to believe overproduction.
And with the vast majority of the CME buyout guitars gone now, some ES-175s still remain.

I think it would be very difficult to determine (from the outside) if it was a case of a huge drop-off in sales or over-production or a combo of both. My worthless guess is that Gibson just blew it gauging the market and planning production.

[Greentone]

The last big slippage in Gibson production was when Norlin was having trouble seeing a future for Gibson and ended up selling to Henry J and his associates in 1986.

[Woody Sound]

I was in Werlein's Music in New Orleans (on the foot of Canal Street) back in '88 or '89 and saw the first L-5CES I'd ever seen with the wood insert on the tailpiece where the silver insert should go.

I always thought that insert looked cooler than the silver one.

[wintermoon]

I always thought that insert looked cooler than the silver one.

not me, I like having L-5 engraved in the brass

[vinnyv1k]

I like them both.

[citizenk74]

I'm not so much in agreement with your assessment of the causes, but in agreement with the result. Gibson has skipped years in other production models, so no no present offering does not mean the end. The reason to me seems to be simply supply and demand.
1. Re Gibson's future's impact, other Memphis models are continuing.
2. The slump in prices? Why not simply supply and demand? They have rolled out other Memphis 2018 models with higher prices than previous years.
3. The CME blowout? That was not really a "result", that was Gibson's own doing. CME states the blowout was due to Gibson overproduction. Sure there may be other factors, but I see no evidence or reason not to believe overproduction.
And with the vast majority of the CME buyout guitars gone now, some ES-175s still remain.

I think it would be very difficult to determine (from the outside) if it was a case of a huge drop-off in sales or over-production or a combo of both. My worthless guess is that Gibson just blew it gauging the market and planning production.

This is more or less what I was attempting to convey. My apologies for sacrificing clarity for brevity.

[Lobomov]

Now if something like the cme sale would just hit europe. We still have plenty 175s available at not super friendly prices

[wmachine]

This is more or less what I was attempting to convey. My apologies for sacrificing clarity for brevity.

Apology certainly not called for. Just a different way of looking at the same thing, it seems.
I tend to overreact when I see all the internet buzz about the decline, unpopularity, etc. of the guitar. And invariably the basis of this is new guitar sales. Horribly misleading conclusions are drawn and stated as fact. Making it worse, guitars are not consumables so the implications are even more distorted.
The media would really have to dig to come up with any real measure of true popularity. But they are far too lazy, and have no real desire for truth, so they will take the low hanging fruit and polish it.

[Herbie]

Hmm? I just checked production figures and you(...)

Production figures? You have access to figures? Can You calculate how many ES-175’s are made total from 1949?

I do not know what anybody would do with such a information but maybe it is interesting!

[Thumpalumpacus]

Even Fender was making most if not all of its upper end guitars in Japan for a year or two or three in the 80s.

I was always under the impression they did that while upgrading and resorting their Corona plant, rather than pure QC issues. Is that impression mistaken?

[lawson-stone]

Production figures? You have access to figures? Can You calculate how many ES-175’s are made total from 1949?

I do not know what anybody would do with such a information but maybe it is interesting!

From Adrian Ingram, The Gibson ES175: Its History and Its Players, 80-83 has figures up to 1980: