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Anybody tried an acoustic archtop bridge (all wood) on a 335 style guitar?--using the existing pickups.
Would an acoustic archtop bridge with a built in piezo pickup work on a 335 style guitar or are piezo pickups purely for acoustic instruments?
Many thanks for your answers.
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01-14-2018 06:39 AM
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Yes...I/ve tried all wood bridge with semi-hollow Ibanez as-200 guitar.
Originally Posted by swingtoneman
There was a problem with tuning.Tune-o matic/metal/ is much better for perfect tuning.
you can find tune-o matic bridge with piezzo on the market.
I prefer the metal bridge on semi-hollow guitars like es-335.
Moffa made semi-hollows with wooden bridges but ithere are completly different instruments.
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I had an ebony bridge on a 60s Guild Starfire V for a while. It worked well and sounded great.
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Thank you for your info- very helpful. I am a rhythm player--Freddie Green / Gypsy Jazz style. I am thinking along the lines that a wooden bridge would give a more mellow / fatter sound than a metal bridge.
Any sound difference between an ebony and a rosewood wooden bridge? There again different types of ebony or rosewood species would probably affect the sound. Have you tried both ebony and rosewood bridges? Your preference?
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I've tried both ebony and rosewood bridges on hollow bodies, and I can't tell much if any difference. And on a semi, I wouldn't expect any.
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335 has inbody screw in bridge setup..are you wanting to replace just the tuneamatic saddle with a wooden bridge saddle??..or do you wanna remove everything and use a floating wood base and saddle type bridge?
rosewood saddle is the softer wood..if you want mellower tone... go with it
there are those of us who'd argue piezos arent for acoustic instruments either!!! ouch! haha...
cheers
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do you want to play Freddie Green /Gypsy Jazz style on es-335 style guitar with wooden bridge?...hmm... Originally Posted by swingtoneman
maybe it can work...because you will loose some sustain/metal bridge/ and you will get more percussive and rythmic sound...you have to experiment/both wooden materials rosewood and ebony are great/.I tried all of them.Also type of strings is important.
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I understand installing nylon TOM saddles really mellow things up and get the job done, plus some Gibson jazz models came with them stock.
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I have to agree. Even if I'm not thinking about which semi-hollow I'm playing, I catch myself sometimes wondering what is wrong with the sound. Then I remember that there's nylon saddles. Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
Okay, that sounds bad. It isn't. It's just different. The decay seems more rapid and the high overtones are tamped down. In other words it's like a wooden saddle only not quite as blatant.
I have no intention of swapping out the saddles.Last edited by Marty Grass; 01-15-2018 at 10:43 AM.
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what's about teflon saddles Graphtech? Originally Posted by Marty Grass
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I often replace t-o-m's with wood saddles. (Onto the posts, without the wood base.) Definitely gives a warmer sound.
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You could try the Sadowsky TruTone compensated wooden saddle. There is one compensated for a Wound G and one for a Plain G.
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Thanks for the interesting info.
I want to completely remove the existing bridge & fit a complete archtop wooden bridge. I will try both ebony & rosewood to hear the difference. I am wanting to try to get a more percussive /rhythmic sound from the 335--should be an interesting experiment to hear how a 335 style guitar compares with an acoustic archtop--probably no comparison--will the archtop win 'handsdown'?
Regarding nylon saddles---Never tried them, but possibly would not work as well as wood as nylon not a good sound transmitter--possibly same goes for other man-made products as well. Your views on the subject of saddles?
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Gibson nylon saddles are pretty dense. Try filing them and you may be surprised. They are not as hard as steel, but I wouldn't call them soft. Originally Posted by swingtoneman
I used to shoot a rifle with a nylon stock. Actually, the M16 has a synthetic stock also. Kevlar is made of a form of nylon.
What we really need here is someone who knows what he's talking about when it comes to material density.
I found this diagram. If it is to be believed, nylon has a density similar to bone.
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I like a warm jazz tone and always replace the TOMs on my Gibson archtops with a wooden saddle. I am willing to trade intonation for tone (It is a guitar and will never perfectly intonate all over in any case). I also do not like the metallic overtones that come with a metal bridge. I recognize that with a wooden bridge comes a faster decay, and that is OK. I am not looking for my archtops to sustain like a Les Paul or 335.
But trying to make a 335 (or a Les Paul) something it is not seems to me to be a fools errand. You will never get a good rhythm guitar sound from a semi hollow or solid body guitar. Rhythm guitar needs percussive attack and that requires an acoustic sound. Where the Les Paul and 335 shine is their ability to sustain. All you will do with an archtop bridge or wooden saddle on those guitars is reduce the sustain. Yes, you might warm up the tone some, but you can also do that with a tone control, all the while keeping the sustain with the TOM.
Experiment all you like. But in the end it is always going to be about having the right tool for the job. For rhythm guitar (Gypsy style or Freddy Greene style) a hollowbody archtop (or Selmer style flattop) is the right tool.
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Experimentation is half the fun! Just don't expect that you are covering new ground. Whatever your experiment, it's been done many times before. Even so, there is that thrill of pouring vinegar on baking soda yourself.
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Marc has this down above about wooded bridges. I do not like the nylon ones for sure and the metal ones just do not sound as smooth to my ears. It can be ebony or even rosewood and is makes for a better sound, not a crisp or biting in some respects. Frankly many years ago in Bill Hollenbeck's shop we did a bunch of comparisons on bridges.
Bill had basically restored a super 400 and it needed a new bridge so he got a replacement from Gibson. He also used one of his own bridges and we tried a standard TOM. Just to make it interesting we also tried a rosewood bridge with two feet that touched the top not the whole base. It has been a while but the real difference was with the TOM, it sounded fine but just not as warm and fuzzy like the wooded base. We actually had a very hard time determining the real difference between the bridge with only two feet touch the top and the other bridges.
The winner in the shoot out was using Bill own custom bridge he used on his guitars, gave better sound by a slight margin. It seem to produce more power and yet was warm in sound. We think but could only speculate the reason was because his bridges have a little more meat on the base with a longer footprint, not really any wider. In particular Bill carved his bridges with more wood under the bass side than treble. He did this because he felt in even the sound up on the guitar over all based on his carving pattern of the top. Why it worked on the Super 400? In the end Bill always said it was a balance between producing sound and openness verses getting things too heavy or light.
So the final story is the guy got the guitar back with a Super 400 replacement bridge and it fit the guitar. I too would have done the same thing since the sound was marginally not as good. The Hollenbeck bridge on it clearly looked out of place. I really believe if you have the time and resources on guitars with bridges it is worth it to experiment. We do this all the time with pickups and amps. Just think for instance the different sound you get from different picks you use. The material has all to do with the sound produced. I think it is even possible to find a metal TOM sounds better on some guitars but again not the norm.Last edited by deacon Mark; 01-15-2018 at 05:26 PM.
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I think it's more art than science. There are so many variables that it's difficult, if even possible, to say exactly what variable is influencing the tone in what way. I tend to prefer wood to metal, but I truly can't really tell the difference between rosewood and ebony. Two bridges may sound different, but it's not always the same difference between different woods, because the total mass and hardness, not to mention the fit to the top, are never exactly the same. And whether one sounds better than another is completely subjective. I will say that I recently removed a rosewood bridge from an old Epiphone and put on a TOM, and the TOM sounds like crap to me. Wood is going back on it.
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the 335 is a semi hollow with a block...and the bridge screws directly into that block... Originally Posted by swingtoneman
an archtop bridge defeats it's purpose (to resonate the arch top) with a laminate top and a center block
you also might have troubles getting the correct bridge height...and also have problems with string tension from the block tailpiece...
gibson knew what they were doing with the 335!! haha
cheers
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Lots of 330, 335, 345, 350 came stock w/TOM and nylon saddles. Some people must want that sound over metal saddles.
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This is simply not true. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
A compensated nut like the Earvana works just as advertised: it helps to keep in-tune chords in the first position. The biggest culprit is E, followed by A and D, and with that nut, C intonates just like the Steinway Spirio.
Intonation high up on the guitar depends on how precise the frets were put on the fingerboard, so, if they are, then the following equation works: (Earvana) + (TOM) + (good setup) = guitar that intonates all over.
How do I know? Guess what nut have I installed on my #1...?
Dig it?
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There are known properties of the various materials for bridges, and I have preferences -- BUT experience tells us you cannot fully predict what's best in a particular situation. As has been stated earlier in the thread, experiment and discover. It takes more time to fit a wooden base than just swapping the upper section, so it is not without some effort/labor behind it. And consider that on a guitar with studs into a block, the top is glued to that block too so there's really no expectation a wooden base is going to work like it would on a hollow guitar. I'd stick with the easy-to-swap upper TOM section, avoid the Nashville in favor of ABR style, and sample different saddle materials.
I recently recieved some ABR stuff made by Faber, and it seems top notch. Gibson | Epiphone | Imported German Guitar Parts | USA Distributor
Change the studs/inserts if you want to upgrade the lower part, probably more effective than a wood base on a semi with a block.
John
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