Easiest & Most Economical Intro to Tube Amps?

[destinytot]

Two cents. Consider having a(n affordable) custom amp built by someone you trust.

[jorgemg1984]

I tend to agree on the bigger tube amp thing at least in speaker size. You need a certain amount of headroom and a 8" speaker doesn't really cut it. I've played through a real tweed champ and it's better for blues rock imho. The engineer who couldn't fix his cabinet rattles in a Gemini was entertaining. The 12" speaker size is when a tube amp starts coming into its own. I felt the stock Jenson was murky in my Gemini for clean though it sounded good cranked. Much better with that JBL but there goes the light weight. I'll try a neo one day but now it is loud enough for everything.

15"s are what I like for full tone but I play violin mostly. Drummer wise I often play with rock oriented drummers and fire breathing solid body guitar guys so there has to be power enough for that but then you are getting into Mahavishnu territory and beyond the sensibilities of parlor jazz.

Smallest I'd advocate would be in the 15-20 watt rms range with a 10" minimum to 12" speaker. An afternoon in even your local GC with your guitar testing amps would go a long way to sorting this out for yourself. I hate to think people decided tubes were awful when all they did was play through a awful amp.

Funny thing, with time I've been able to appreciate smaller speakers more and more. They are more focused, have less dispersion and tend to be more balanced in te highs / lows, imo of course.

[DanielleOM]

Lots of interesting information on You Tube.

e.g.

[John A.]

you just cannot be serious.. you are suggesting I spend $2700 on an amp? "it's not cheap" is just crazy wrong it's such an udnerstatement.

Honestly, this is the first post I have simply felt was of zero help. I stated a price range, I can move a little beyond it, and I want and entry-level, fairly representative tube amp. And you're seriously telling me only a $2700 amp is the only thing worthy?

You live on a very different planet that I do. Forgive me for being angry, but what you say is just ridiculous.

I agree. Completely ridiculous. He should have recommended a Dumble. Now _that's_ a budget tube amp (as in "the budget of a medium sized oil sheikdom").

John

[LtKojak]

My plan is to stick to a very low outlay of money, mainly to satisfy my curiosity.

OK, for my taste, the arguably best-sounding tone-footprint for Jazz on the market today belong to the following amps, in no particular order: Roland Blues cube, Boss Katana and Fender Mustang. Choose the size you're comfortable with to slab around with little to no physical effort.

All three well within an economic budget, but with satisfying tone anyway.

I personally prefer to use a laptop, a sound card and a FRFR system for Live in a stage and Studio Monitors for home use. My go-to program is Scuffham Amps S-Gear.

HTH,

[John A.]

For home use, there's plenty of clean in an old Champ. Go Silverface, probably can be in one for under $500.

For really cheap, the reissue Champion 600 (the little thing in the two tone tolex) actually sounds great for jazz. I'll make a video later.

+ 1 on the Champion 600. I've played through one, and it's pretty nice.

John

[Hep To The Jive]

Pak Amp

Now we talking. Quilter? DV Mark? No, this!

[Cavalier]

Funny thing, with time I've been able to appreciate smaller speakers more and more. They are more focused, have less dispersion and tend to be more balanced in te highs / lows, imo of course.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Speakers like the Eminence Deltalite II 2515 have a flat response across the range. I sometimes have to use 10s and every time miss the full low range, it's gorgeous in 15"s. The smaller you go the more the enclosure has to try and compensate. I also like something close to the size of the guitar top producing the sound. I do practice at times with really small monitor type speakers so know they can sound great too.

[BeBob]

There are lots of good amp recommendations being made, but unfortunately many of them are ignoring the $200-$300 cost criterion stated by the OP.

If he can push up his budget a little then maybe the recommendation of a $500 amp wouldn't be out of line, but anything over that is just absurd. I can't imagine that anyone who is recommending an amp that costs over $500 is even trying to help the OP find something that will work for him. Instead of recommending our favorite tube amps, let's try to recommend good tube amps that might fit into his price objective.

[pkirk]

Lawson

I have this amp

Amazon.com: VHT AV-SP1-6 Special 6 Combo Amplifier: Musical Instruments

For 299$ it sounds pretty good as a practice amp. I use it also on gigs as a 2nd amp in a stereo rig
where I have a reasonably powerful main amp (Clarus/RE) and the VHT has some subtle modulating delay, to spread out the tone.

But it is not powerful enough by itself in a group context. And *for me* the pain of a tube amp is not worth it.
I think the idea that a tube amp will "warm up your sound" is overstated when playing at low levels. The amp sounds good
when I'm playing solo, but a good SS amp with a good speaker is just as good *for me*

[Thumpalumpacus]

There are lots of good amp recommendations being made, but unfortunately many of them are ignoring the $200-$300 cost criterion stated by the OP.

Used Egnater Tweaker 15 heads can be had under $300. Not ideal jazz amps, but they can get you in the ballpark, and you can pair it with a preferred speaker.

[Cavalier]

Anybody try a red knob Fender Champ 12? Prices aren't out of the stated ball park and it has reverb and a 12" speaker.

[ESCC]

Small tube amp with "vintage Fender" tones, try a VHT Special 6, great sounding amp not just for the money. Here is a review from Sound on Sound:

VHT Special 6
Low-powered Valve Guitar Amplifier

VHT Special 6 is priced like a budget amp, but the specifications read like those of a boutique model. Available either as a 1x10 open?back combo or a separate head with matching 1x12 closed?back cabinet, it's fully hand?wired, with no PCBs in sight. We're promised a high?quality speaker, and although the head and combo are built of MDF, the 1x12 cabinet is made, in time?honoured and labour?intensive fashion, from finger?jointed Baltic ply. It all sounds a bit too good to be true.

There is a fair bit in common between the Special 6 and some of the Fender amps that have borne the Champ designation. Like the Champs, the Special 6 is a single?ended design that uses a single ECC83 (or 12AX7 if you prefer) preamp valve and a 6V6 output valve, although its rectifier is solid?state. The only EQ control is a simple Tone knob, but the Special 6 is more flexible in this regard than initially meets the eye. The amplifier's default voicing is set by a fixed 'tone stack', but the resistors making up this circuit can be removed from the signal path by pulling the Volume control out, effectively re?voicing the preamp stage and increasing the gain. The Tone knob remains operational in both modes, and the pull boost can be controlled using the supplied footswitch, if you prefer.

Both the head and the combo feature a multi?tap output transformer that is capable of driving either a 4?, 8? or 16? load; VHT's own speakers are 16? models. A three?way switch puts the Special 6 in and out of Standby mode, and also provides a 'Low Power' mode in which the output valve is operated in triode rather than pentode configuration.

UK distributors Dawsons were kind enough to send both the combo and the head/cab for review; another option is an open?back 1x12 cabinet with a Celestion G12H30 speaker, but this wasn't available. What impressed me first of all was the build quality, which would not be out of place on a much more expensive amp. Everything feels solid, the finish is of a very high quality, and although the VHT logo is arguably a bit on the large side, the overall look is jolly smart. The only minor weakness I could detect was a slightly wobbly grille on the back panel of the combo.

The basic tone of the Special 6 is very impressive indeed: less raw than my Vibrochamp, with a smoother, more 'scooped' clean sound that is perhaps closer to what you'd expect from one of Fender's larger amps. Pull the Volume pot to defeat the fixed tone stack, and this gives way to a louder, more distorted, snarly sound with a lot more mid?frequencies. I've seen this described as moving from a 'blackface' to a 'tweed' Fender sound, and as long as you don't expect a perfect replica of a '50s Champ, there's some merit to that description. Low Power mode is perhaps a little disappointing by comparison, but still capable of yielding usable sounds.

[goldenwave77]

OK...so I offered a chance to convert a decent vintage stereo tube amp for nada, zilch...the cost of shipping.

Here, someone has done it for you.

Bogen was decent quality stuff. And the price is right.($149 plus shipping)

(I know these conversions are do-able...you can research a bit on various tube amp sites.)

Bogen VP17X Tube Amp Head-1960's Vintage-Guitar Cab | Reverb

[Hammertone]

My first amp was a '60s Bogen Challenger PA head. I used it with a borrowed Sunn 2x15" refrigerator for a couple of years. Completely reworked by Gyro Gearloose in Boston, it performed quite well. Good times...

[guido5]

... Completely reworked by Gyro Gearloose in Boston,...

That's putting the wayback machine into overdrive...

[steinny]

These are really good amps for the money (currently $179--they are frequently on sale):

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_...SABEgJXgvD_BwE

I've had one for about a year and it's been my main amp--tube warmth and squishiness at low volumes.

[citizenk74]

Something that will bring you in under budget: A few years back I wandered into a music shop and picked up a Kustom Tube 12A for, I believe, 110 bucks. One 12AX7 (subbing a 12ATx will give even more headroom); Gain, Low, High, and Volume controls; two voicings for the gain setting, along with a boost; and an 8" Celestion give you a nice range to tones and a remarkable amount of volume should you need it and a headphone jack if you don't. The clean tone with my ES-175 is just fine. Perfect for home or office, the SS power stage means volume changes don't much affect the tone. Compact, light weight, and toneful. I use it as a near-field monitor; I don't like to stress mics, or my ears, being from the "amplifiers are best used as a personal monitor/tone shaper" school of gettin' it done. Line out for driving poweramps or mixing desks.

I liked it so much I went back a week later and bought another one. Never hurts to have a backup.

[Longways to Go]

Hey Lawson,

you should definitely jump into the tube amp game . . . just because it is fun and they can sound great!
they can also be expensive, they can also be a PITA. . . plus you get to mess around with changing tubes!

I've had a dozen or so over the years, some 5 watts, some 60+ watts. The loud ones can sound really good at quiet volumes too -- the only downside is they weigh a ton! My current fave, a 70's-80's Musicman special 130 (yes, 130 watts) sounds wonderful at low practice volumes but it weights 60 lbs. OTOH, it cost less than $300 . . . in fact, it sounds sooooo good I just didn't worry about how heavy it is. I have a nice Rivera Venus 3 that also sounds really really good, but I think I like the sound of the old Musicman better. As it happens, my Musicman also has a small crackling noise issue that I will ask the forum about soonish . . . such is the world of tube amps.

Fender amps such as the Princeton, Deluxe, or less expensive Superchamp are all excellent choices too. No way to go wrong there. I'd skip the Blues Jr and Hot Rod Deluxe. Tweed is a whole nother cool planet worthy of exploration . . .

Boutique is yet another issue. Lots of good-to-great amps, but they can be big $$$ and you never know if you will like the jive until you get it home. A pretty deep dark rabbit hole IMO.

I've owned VHT and I'd skip it. If you are looking at Bugera, I think their little v5 looks cool. the Ampeg GVT series sounds great IMO. Don't count out Marshall either -- I owned a class 5 and I regret trading it off. One issue I run into shopping for amps is does it have reverb or not? I know people will say stick a pedal in front, but I still find that having reverb on a combo amp can be a nice thing. Especially if it's a good spring reverb on a good tube amp!

Mostly, I'd say get out to the local shops and pawn shops and play some used amps.
Happy shopping

[Thumpalumpacus]

As it happens, my Musicman also has a small crackling noise issue that I will ask the forum about soonish . . .

If you haven't already, pull the tubes, get some electronics cleaner down into the sockets, and then work the tubes in them a bit.

[Max405]

The Princeton Reverb reissue that I got from Vinny is the single best purchase I ever made.
The amp is perfect in every way. Of course it was modified a bit from Vinny (new wires, new speaker {eminence little buddy} and a new transformer I think), but it is the last amp I'll ever own. I wish it was tweed but you cant have it all..

[Boston Joe]

The Princeton Reverb reissue that I got from Vinny is the single best purchase I ever made.
The amp is perfect in every way. Of course it was modified a bit from Vinny (new wires, new speaker {eminence little buddy} and a new transformer I think), but it is the last amp I'll ever own. I wish it was tweed but you cant have it all..

You could always re-cover the cabinet.

[Longways to Go]

If you haven't already, pull the tubes, get some electronics cleaner down into the sockets, and then work the tubes in them a bit.

Thanks Thump! I better get a new thread started so Lawson can continue his tube amp drooling uninterrupted

[lawson-stone]

So friends. Today I ordered the Fender Super Champ 15w head. I will use it with the 12" Quilter speaker cabinet I have from the days when I had a Quilter mini-head.

I will keep you posted, on a NAD thread, how this works out!

Thank you all, every single one of you, for your input and discussion. Every post was a positive benefit to me as I pondered this, and I enjoyed and appreciation every contribution. You folks are seriously a fantastic crew to put such a question to.

Thank you, one and all!

[Frank67]

Great! I hope it‘ll work out for you Lawson!