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Hello there,
I'm planning to build me a Low Power Tweed Twin (some work for the long winter nights)
I'm wondering about speaker choice
I'm well aware of impedance matching with OT and impedance calculation for speakers in parallel, serial.
I'm just wondering if it makes sense to use two different 12" speakers in a combo, and if yes, what are the benefits and limitations in the choice ?
As a start, I was looking at Eminence Cannabis Rex (to give you an idea of what I'm after)
Other idea to evaluate : use one 15" instead of 2x12" ?
Looking for your thoughts
Thanks a lot
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10-19-2017 08:42 AM
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I would add an 8 instead of a 15; you get just about all of the headroom boost without the weight. I used to have an early 50s Gibson GA-30 with that configuration. Selling that amp was my dumbest equipment transaction ever.
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According to some, mixing Alnico and Ceramic speakers is a good idea. The trick is to find a pair that match in output.
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Be careful of speaker sensitivy, the C Rex is a very loud speaker - and may sound quite louder than your other choice.
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Yes, rated almost 102.
Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
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With a low power Twin you can use two alnico speakers and get an excellent sounding amp. Herb Ellis told me that the early Twin was one of his very favorite amplifiers.
40-watts into two alnico speakers of good provenance, whether they be two, 8-ohm 12" speakers, or two, 8-ohm speakers of mixed diameter, is going to be a recipe for great results.
I agree that a 12 and an 8 is a fine combination. The trouble, these days, is finding reasonably matching speakers where the 8-inch speaker is capable of taking much power. My suggestion would be to look at the Weber 12A125 and the Weber 8A125. These speakers are outstanding, and each can take 20 watts. Perfect.
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Thanks for these answers.
Adding an 8" looks like an interesting idea I have not thought about. I'll have to consider this option.
Yes, C-Rex is rated 102 dB. The closest I found is EVM 12 L Classic (at 100 dB) but is out of my radar (because of the weight)
I will check Weber speakers availability in Europe. At first glance, not easy. (and not cheap !)
Looks like the Quest of the Holy Growl ! (Sorry !)
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I've always preferred multiple speakers, especially in an open-back cab. Originally Posted by 339 in june
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I like 15s for the full range. I modified my Twin for one years ago. I also run a Yamaha G100 115 that sounds great.
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You could try "Watford Speakers" in the UK for Weber - they used to hold a stock of about 6-10 different models Originally Posted by 339 in june
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I have an old 10” alnico Altec paired with a new 8” ceramic Jensen in a cab I use for a tweed Princeton clone. Sounds great, if a little on the dark side. I’m pretty sure the Altec is loud enough that the 8” isn’t doing a whole lot, but I like how it sounds quite a bit.
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Thanks for the tip, I tried "Watford Speakers", but got better matching results with "Watford Valves" Originally Posted by Ray175
They seem to have only 5 in stock but no 12" and no 20W 8" !
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Never played a 15”+8” cab but 2 x 12” is a classic! That wide zone of sound is worth experiencing. Especially if You can make it light!
There is Webers in Europe in used market. But You need a bit time for hunting if You have something special in mind. I think that the 12A125s are most common and two of them could easily fill the bill.
Good luck for the project!
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Didn't one of the early Gibson amps that Jazzbo's crave have two speakers??? Wasn't it like a 12" and a 4"?
So using two different size speakers has been done quite a bit, but could get expensive experimenting with speakers and cabinet design to find a configuration that works well.
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Originally Posted by 339 in june
Perfect!
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I've got a Fender reissue Tweed Twin with the 5E8A, dual rectifier circuit. I run it with old Tung Sol 5881's and it makes around 32 watts at the speakers. It's a great sounding amp, both clean and driven, but speakers do make a difference. It's an early model (2004) and came with the Weber designed Eminence manufactured speaker. As I understand it they are the Weber, Jensen P12Q copy. The amp sounds great with those speakers. I also have an open back cab with a pair of Weber 12A125's and they do sound pretty much identical. I've also tried it out to a cab with a pair of Celestion Golds and that sounded fantastic as well. However, to my ears the best 2 x 12 are the late 60's JBL's in my silver face Twin, the tweed sounds fantastic through them, tightens up the bottom end and provide a lot more punch at low volume. The JBL's also reveal how much the Eminence, Weber's, and to a lesser degree, the Celestion's, colour the tone of the amp, ie they enhance the mids in an already mid focussed amp.
I have tried the amp out to an open backed 1 x15" cab, tried a modern Jensen P15N and an old grey basket JBL130D. Both speakers sounded good with the JBL better to my ears as it coloured the tone of the amp less. However, the amp definitely loses something when going to a single 15 from the 2 12's but I find that with most amps, 2 speakers are always better than one to my ears. However, if I hook the JBL up as an extension cab with the 2x12's in the Twin cab, it sounds absolutely fantastic!
Weber's are really difficult to get in Europe now. Watford Valves only carry old stock he has left over. I bought both mine direct from Weber in the USA.
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Thanks for this very well documented answer, Old tube.
It looks like Weber will be out of the race or me, as I'm relunctant to add shipping cost and duties to their price.
Definitely stopped thinking about a 1x15" for the combo (maybe later in an extra cab ?)
From my research, it seems difficult to find similar SPL between 12" and 8" speakers, but seems doable with 10". Do you think it makes sense to mix 10 and 12" sizes, and will it bring something to the sound ?
Another question (if I may .... !) what do you think of WGS speakers ? I have one (small 8" 4 Ohm low watt) in my 5F1 clone and I'm quite satisfied with it. Will it be the same in another power context, with 6L6 instead of 6V6 ? WGS are readily available in Europe and not expensive !
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In a twin configuration from a size, weight and sound perspective I like two 10's. My first was a Music Man 210HD, then a converted silverface twin, and finally two single 10" cabs. In all cases I diddled with loading different speaker type (bass or guitar), brand, and wattage.
If you're making your own cab for sure you could mix 10" and 12" speakers, I've played mixing separate cabs each with one 12" and one 10", but with two 10's and diddling with bass / guitar speakers or just different brands/watt ratings I think you'd come out ahead in size, weight and sound.
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Originally Posted by 339 in june
I'm not sure that the SPL is so critical. Remember that the SPL is measured at a fixed signal frequency (1K? I think) The speaker power varies across it's audible range with it's effective impedence and therefore SPL changing at different frequencies. Therefore some speakers that, on quoted SPL alone, should not logically work well together, actually do. A classic speaker paring is a Celestion G12M @97 along with G12H @100, on SPL numbers alone the G12H should be 1.5 - 2 times louder than the M. However, due to the M being much more mid focussed than the H, which has better highs and lows than the M, they actually work really well together and you don't perceive the individual speaker power difference. So as long as they are not too far apart on SPL, the manufacturer's frequency response graphs that most post on their websites, can be really useful.
WGS speakers get a very good name on another forum I'm on.
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Thanks (once more !) Old tube
I'm gonna check the frequency response graphs instead of just SPL. That makes sense !
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I have done different speakers in a cab before. Here is a pair of alnico and ceramic in the same cabinet. I can't take credit for it; I was just copying what some oddball gun maker/collector thought of...
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Thank to everybody who took time to share experience and bring some light in this question
I'm well tempted to try the Eminence C-Rex. There is a good feeling about it in this forum, and its characteristics show the ability to fulfill one of my requirement : plenty of headroom.
I couldn't find a matching 8" speaker. Their response graphs show a difference of 2 to 5 dB compared to the C-Rex.
So, I looked at the offer of 10" speakers (trying to keep total weight as low as possible) and took into consideration the suggestion of mixing AlNiCo speakers with others.
At the end (hopefully) I'm about to order an Eminence RedFang 10 with the C-Rex.
(Next step will be to order valves, transformers, capacitors, resistors .... for my build)
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To Nopedals: yes, the Gibson GA 30 was/is A FABULOUS SOUNDING AMP, ( when working properly with speakers that won't die on you)
Old speakers that old need to be upgraded or re-coned
Go with a 12 and a 10.
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