New Korean Guitars which over-perform for $

[Robertkoa]

I have noticed some impressive Demos of a few of the D'Angelico and Peerless
and some of the MIK Ibanez Metheny Models such as PM 35.

I have also seen a few quick demos of
25.5" Scale Prestige Musician Semi Hollows which seem to have a' bigger' sound than an ES 335 .

For example if you play a 335 Type and love it and it inspires you- that's what counts.
BUT - honestly I don't think a CD done with a 335 vs a Les Paul - set up properly etc. - could anyone hear the difference ?

It appears when you get up to the ES 137 for example there is a difference in the neck PU Tones.

So my personal interest is Guitars that offer some 'new ' Tones but the Thread can be all overperformers including Budget Archtops , Semi Hollow Archtops etc.
I noticed the Korean Metheny Guitars seem to have a lot of glassy sustain for an Archtop and seem to be able to do a Benson- Metheny morph really well in the right hands ( sounding like neither but a blend of both Tones ).

I thought the Peerless Retromatic is a cool Guitar - although a P90 in Neck Position is not why I would want a Semi Hollow.

A few Video Demos:

Ibanez PM 35 no longer made but cool Tone as I said above.

This D'Angelico really impressed me. But not Phatt.
Notice the pretty and complex overtones on the clean Fingerstyle Stuff - has a lot of Acoustic Quality but still sounds Electric..also really nice Cleans on Chords ..fat warm neck sounds and a fairly deep sounding Guitar.
Guinness book of World Records- a full 1 minute 10 seconds before he cranks up the Distortion..
A Good Player and I appreciate his Demos..but more cleans would help.

A detuned L5 Demo Reissue Exactly like Wes' Original with Mega Distortion and Chugga Chugga chords would be funny though..

Here is a Prestige Model with the Canada/ Korea Connection .

It is 25.5" scale has a fairly big deep sound
one piece thick Mahogany Neck - ( EDIT Necks are 3 piece Mahogany with opposing grain in Center to resist warping = nice )( rather have a laminate neck for Anti Warp) 14 " Radius Board ..( my favorite ) a lot of Sustain ...and I LOVE where they put the neck PU - next to 20th Fret.
They will make it with Stop Tail I was told..
We again have a bit of Gain but you can probably hear this Guitar seems to want to go to many 25.5" Scale Tones..but has a Semi Archtop Tone- kind of like a Long Scale ES 137 might if someone was clever enough to make one.

There is also the Double Cutaway version of this same specification:

This doesn't seem to have that big bottom end as the Single Cut above but so short Demo and so little Clean Tones - hard to tell. And these are 10 Gauge Strings versus 12s I would probably use.
Edit: the Prestige Sales Guys said there is very little difference in Tones between the Double Cut and Single Cut..
I would like to talk them into using Jescar Fretwire ( including EVO ) - and one of those new 6 way switches which works like a normal 3 way toggle but also goes up and down for Single Coil ( or I assume could be Parallel for a kind of P 90 Sound).



There are very few Demos on these- which is odd to me...

So curious about Peerless and people have high praise for their work.
Some have said the Prestige Semis may be made in the Peerless Factory.

Which Guitars are overperforming for the Money and also which Semihollows go further than a 335 toward Archtop with Sustain type Tones...warm deep Tones for Modern Stuff..whatever.

After hearing more Demos on the D'Angelicos - the Deluxe Level are the ones with Jescar Frets and 6 way switches and usually Duncan Pickups and locking Grover Tuners- but I am not hearing the Fat Acoustic/ Electric / Warm quality I would expect from the 16 inch wide X 3" deep body- in the Demos.
Could just be the Players and what they are going for..
They have a few different scale lengths including a 25.5 " 335 type..and the larger body above in 25.5".

The Rosenwinkel is 25" scale .

These are well thought out Guitars but expensive for MIK especially when you get to the Deluxe Tier.

[TN Pat]

Excellent topic. I am quite interested in the Prestige line myself, particularly the double cutaway and the NYS Standard. I hope some people weigh in.

[GNAPPI]

I have a Cort Triggs, a Peerless hardtail, a couple of Ibanez and a few other odd semi's that perform way beyond their cost. I stopped looking at and being impressed the head stock logo tax stamp on semi hollows :-)

[Rhythmisking]

I have a few Ibanez's and I'm a definite fan; having said that, they have the most tasteless, out of proportion, ugliest 'f' holes of any major brand. Why? It's a HOLE for gods sake! Not like it would cost more to make it look good. Enough of that rant.

The Artcore Customs take the prize for me for being much better guitars than they should be. A very close second would be the short-lived Dearmond line. No comparison to what they morphed into as Squier's.

[artcore]

I almost went with a peerless......the quality seems very good.....can't say the resale is or not......

[GNAPPI]

I have a few Ibanez's and I'm a definite fan; having said that, they have the most tasteless, out of proportion, ugliest 'f' holes of any major brand. Why? It's a HOLE for gods sake! Not like it would cost more to make it look good. Enough of that rant.

Hey, don't you realize that if all that shiny slathered on gorp were on a Gibson Custom it would be $10,000 ??? :-)

Imagine a 355 with figured wood???

Example below...



PS, I love em.

[entresz]

Part of why I bought my Gretsch G-400 Synchromatic was because it outperformed pretty much every archtop in that price range. Made in Terada, Japan. It's at the same quality level as a Vestax D'Angelico in my opinion. Tone, playability and looks are up there with the best. I have a floating Charlie Christian pickup fitted to it.

While I still lust over something like a vintage Epiphone Deluxe, I know that even if I get something better I will definitely keep the Gretsch.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I love my MiC Ibby AS-93 -- $350 used in pristine condition. Jazz, blues, heavy rock, it delivers. The neck is perfectly shaped for my hands and while the pickups leave a little to be desired, I've been around the block enough to manage workarounds. It definitely overperforms in the bang-for-buck department.

[El Fundo]

I'm quite happy with my Ibanez AS153 after having owned three very nice 335s in the past. Swapped the pups out for Seth Lovers and this thing kills!

Also have a D'Angelico EX-SS with Lollar Imperials that is very sweet.

Both guitars are are extremely versatile, able to handle almost any style I subject them to. And of course they both are excellent when it comes to JAZZ!

Now you've got me curious about the Prestige brand! :^\

[Robertkoa]

I'm quite happy with my Ibanez AS153 after having owned three very nice 335s in the past. Swapped the pups out for Seth Lovers and this thing kills!

Also have a D'Angelico EX-SS with Lollar Imperials that is very sweet.

Both guitars are are extremely versatile, able to handle almost any style I subject them to. And of course they both are excellent when it comes to JAZZ!

Now you've got me curious about the Prestige brand! :^\

Yes- This is the kind of overperforming I am talking about !
Where you can get a ' Keeper' for maybe $1000. or even $1500. or $2000.

Or if a Guitar is Acoustically Toneful- new pickups - or possibly even a refret etc.

I like the Ibanez ' Trisound ' switch so neck PU can go
Standard ( two coils in Series ) or Parallel or Single Coil..

Any Tech can do this for you with a push pull pot - not three choices but switch to Parallel or switch to Single Coil -

So you can play really *Phatt single lines...but for dense chord work ..hit the Parallel switch and you can still play 5 and 6 Note Chords with no mud.

I am going to call the Guy I spoke to from Prestige and see if I can them to put up more Demos on the
two Semihollows..

I have read that the Ibanez Guitars both MIJ and even MIK are durable and fairly consistent and the one Ben Monder ( MIK ) and the JM 10 are and all the
Metheny MIK Ibanez seem to be very good though I've not yet played one.

Though all of those 335 Types except Seventy Seven Exrubato Jazz seem too thin to me ...i.e.the Semi Hollow effect is subtle.

[palindrome]

The PM35 wasn't made in Korea but in China, BTW.

Just peeped through the f-hole of mine to make sure.

I guess the PM35 and the PM2 have been the only two Metheny models made in China thus far.

[Robertkoa]

Thanks Palindrome- do you guys like the Tone on the Chinese PM 35 ?
Sounds like an overperformer in the Vid I posted....

[Meggy]

I have a pair of Korean made Shine SIL-510 model guitars (no longer made as far as I'm aware) that I continue to use all the time for jazz playing, including many of my gigs. I've sometimes had comments about how nice it is to hear such a lovely, retro archtop guitar tone for a change - and yet the guitars barely even qualify as semi-acoustic, with just a small chamber/f-hole on one side. But they definitely do have a certain something tone-wise. From what I read, I think the body wood is probably basswood, with a quilt maple veneer - maybe the lightness helps with the woody resonance. But I'm very attached to these guitars - I've changed the pickups, and gave the frets a level/dress, but they were very cheap to buy.

[lammie200]

If you want cheap, Korean made Danelectros are very well made IMHO.

[LtKojak]

IME, Epiphone Sheratons are the ones with the best-sounding tone-footprint.

Investing on them putting in good pickups, harness and other hardware is well worth the tonal outcome, so I'm always looking for second-hand ones. In my case, they're not even need to be in fantastic shape, as I do all the work, from selecting, building and installing the hardware to the necessary fretwork and nut-making and setting.

Once finished, they sound just as good with either 11-52 roundwound or 12-52 flatwound strings.

HTH,

[Robertkoa]

IME, Epiphone Sheratons are the ones with the best-sounding tone-footprint.

Investing on them putting in good pickups, harness and other hardware is well worth the tonal outcome, so I'm always looking for secon-hand ones. In my case, they're not even need to be in fantastic shape, as I do all the work, from selecting, building and installing the hardware to the necessary fretwork and nut-making and setting.

Once finished, they sound just as good with either 11-52 roundwound or 12-52 flatwound strings.

HTH,

That's really cool.

As long as you have the " Tone Platform" and the woods are stable...you could even have a Guitar 'Plekked and refretted with some great EVO Gold or other ' favorite ' Frets..and maybe one of those new 6 way switches and great pickups.

For Resale spending an extra $550 on a $500 Guitar makes little sense but for sheer TONES it could make a lot of sense.

Especially for someone like me ..in Recording IF a Guitar helps me Play what I am hearing- it's a big plus...I also don't want a bunch of Guitars...I prefer to squeeze the most out of Two Guitars with H-S-H pickups and switches etc.

But don't do the work myself or like to.

I am going to try to talk Prestige into using Jescar Fretwire and maybe using those new 6 way switches.

Long ago I heard a Fender Squire HM 5 or HM7 ( for Heavy Metal -lol )
BUT- there was one with a Hardtail- not a Floyd and it was neck thru body maple / basswood body/ maple cap- unplugged about twice or more as loud as a Strat and deeper 20 second sustain.

I put a deposit and told them to hold it- I knew I could have a Tech put better pickups H- S-H I was leaving town..a month later I went to pick it up and- they had sold it- gave my Deposit back-
I KNEW it would be a great Tone Platform ..
I can find no record of Fender making a Hardtail Neck Thru ( not set neck ) HM7 or HM5 - but it was there..


But now these Koreans will give me Phatt 25.5" scale Set Neck Semihollows - great!

I suggested Kiesel make a Holdsworth HF2 with a larger Body and 22 Fret Neck Pickup location and said I'd buy one of the Prototypes- not interested.

THEN I asked them to make me a Holdsworth H2 and join neck so neck Humbucker would be right next to 21st Fret.

They said too much engineering to do that - I expected a quote/ upcharge...

Want to hear how bad neck PU placement can eff up
a Guitar listen to the Taylor T3..

[Robertkoa]

I like the fact a LOT that here we can learn about Guitars that not only overperform for the $...
But also just outperform ...period.

I think someone said that the Guitar Brazilian ( whiz Kid !) Pedro Martin plays is a $200 Teisco Del Rey !

[lawson-stone]

I'd say that every Epiphone guitar I ever owned, and that's maybe 5 or 6, has totally punched way above its class. All were solid, good playing instruments. The Elitist Broadway is the equal of any L5ces type of guitar.

[TN Pat]

I was hoping that some folks would chime in about the Prestige NYS Standard and DC. It looks like they are not too widespread, as they each have just one video on youtube.
Is anyone else getting sick of all the videos of severely overdriven archtops only being played cleanly for 15 seconds by angst-ridden shredders?!

[GNAPPI]

Is anyone else getting sick of all the videos of severely overdriven archtops only being played cleanly for 15 seconds by angst-ridden shredders?!

Yes!!! It's the most idiotic trend I've ever seen. How the hell does anyone get the sound of a git through a gamut of pedals? As soon as I hear one go that route, I close youtube.

[lammie200]

Pedals (particularly over use of pedals) can promote sloppy playing in my experience. I have nothing against shredding, but I would venture a guess that a lot of shredders would sound terrible direct to an amp.

[Robertkoa]

I was hoping that some folks would chime in about the Prestige NYS Standard and DC. It looks like they are not too widespread, as they each have just one video on youtube.
Is anyone else getting sick of all the videos of severely overdriven archtops only being played cleanly for 15 seconds by angst-ridden shredders?!

Absolutely..I NEED to hear the darn Guitar clean with note decay and chords ring..then clean playing..
and maybe 5% of the time with a little overdrive...but these Guys can't WAIT to crank it with Gain so you hear the Amp instead of the freakin' Guitar.


I was talking to Adrian from Prestige ( whom I do not know personally ...but that's never stopped me before..ha) about this very thing today long distance.

He said they don't have too much control over Guitar World but he said they will have more Demos coming up soon
I hear a deeper low E and bottom end on the Neck PU Musician Pro Hollow ( single Cut) than on the Double Cutaway but Prestige tells me the difference is barely audible.



I could order the Single Cut with a Stop Tail ( no Bigsby) but will take awhile.

DC version comes with Stop Tail- I will wait for more Videos..

I spoke to Jeff Silver from Jescar ( frets ) and asked him to call Prestige and send samples of their wire in hope that Prestige uses it ( I don't know Jeff either lol).

The Mahogany necks are not one piece- they are three piece with center piece having opposing grain to resist warping..Their Site says 'single piece Mahogany ' but it's apparently cut into 3.

The Guitar you are talking about has the P90s ..really Classic looking and it's 24.75" scale -
P90s make the Guitar sound thinner/ brighter usually
but if you like them..why not?

There are VERY few demos on the 25.5" Semis I am interested in also.
BUT they are 20 Fret necks...so the Neck PU should be very warm.

I mentioned on Another Thread that I asked Kiesel about making a Jazz/Fusion Guitar using the Holdsworth type Construction but cooler shape and larger Body AND 22 Frets -a Production Model- not interested.

So then I asked if they would make a regular HF2 Holdworth for me but 21 Frets so a fatter neck Tone
and not neck heavy...I expected a $ 500 upcharge..
But Jeff K. said too much Engineering to do it.

So I heard of Prestige..just waiting to hear more demos like you..to make reasonably sure.

[TN Pat]

Appreciate the input Robert. Glad this thread is still alive!
What kind of wait would the custom shop require for something like a stop tailpiece on the Single Cut? I had thought of the same thing. I assume that the customizations would likely be limited to cosmetics and hardware, but I would like to see a long scale option on the NYS, since I often tune flat to accommodate my voice. The long scale is what makes the DC and SC appealing to me, plus the fact that they are routed for humbuckers would allow me more options later on (like a CC or P90 retrofit). I love the NYS Standard aesthetics though, and can always just use heavier strings.
So far, Prestige is high on the list as far as features I am looking for. I would prefer a plain dot fretboard on the DC or Single cut, and a brown walnut finish would be sweet! Some lower output P90s like Lollar 50s winds would be ideal on the NYS. Satin necks.
But ultimately I would probably go stock and save the cash to put towards a better amp. The stock models get me pretty close to what I am looking for.
I hope to see some clean footage of the DC soon!

[Robertkoa]

Wow..I am the exact same way regarding large Block Inlays...I prefer something smaller too inlay - wise.
I like to feel the wood- but not a Deal Breaker..
It's funny that they have an Inlay on Blocks at the first fret...that one I can find..haha.
What's the idea for the first fret Inlay ?

So IF your Playing in E-flat you don't try to go below the Nut and and up on the Headstock...

He told me 6 Months for a Stop Tail Single Cut.

These Demos are very very short and no back to back comparison of the Single Cut vs Double Cut but I hear a thickness on the Neck of the SC beyond the DC..do you Guys hear it also ?

The two Guitars are very very similar and same dimensions...maybe that extra wood around top of neck ( and air inside ) has an effect ?

Also the Guys in Canada will install Push Pull Pots or possibly a 6 way switch on these Guitars after they come from Korea...

You could go from Humbucker to Single Coil...or straight Jazzers might want to go series / parallel..

It takes out the low mids for dense chord work - and still no hum ( in Parallel )- really fat Guitars like ES 175s could benefit from Series/ Parallel on the Neck PU.

Now he did say regarding 6 Months - I said that's kind of long- he'd rather be earlier than later.

I prefer a Stop Tail SC - I thought most serious ( or older me included) would prefer non red too..

Not a deal breaker for me..but a Bigsby is...no use for those .

I just need to see more Reviews to make sure there is nothing bad about them we don't know..

The Specs are perfect for me other than I like the Jescar Frets..

I was asking Jeff Silver about Gibson Frets..because
the Frets seem flat on top like they Plek away the top
5 mil..I asked him why they don't sell to Gibson..
He said they DO but only the Historics and higher end ( !) Gibsons use them I believe he said Memphis
often uses them.

Wierd! Because Fretwire is NOT that expensive..so even a $ 2500 to $3000 ES 335 may have cheaper Fretwire ..and even the Jescar Nickel Silver wire is about 10 to 15% harder and it feels slicker in a good way than softer Nickel.
Those of you have played Carvins or Suhr know what I mean...also many of the D'Angelico and the
Eastman use Jescar Fretwire..

IF you play a really well constructed Guitar with the
Jescar .047X .104 it does not feel super tall but due to the mass of the wire- fretted notes tend to sound as loud and full as open strings- fretted notes= the Nut..I have Recorded a LOT over many years in dinky to Pro Studios so I notice all this stuff.

[jazz.fred]

IME, Epiphone Sheratons are the ones with the best-sounding tone-footprint.

Investing on them putting in good pickups, harness and other hardware is well worth the tonal outcome, so I'm always looking for second-hand ones. In my case, they're not even need to be in fantastic shape, as I do all the work, from selecting, building and installing the hardware to the necessary fretwork and nut-making and setting.

Once finished, they sound just as good with either 11-52 roundwound or 12-52 flatwound strings.

HTH,

I agree wholeheartedly. I have owned an Epi Sheraton for 20 years and it's an incredible value. My Sheraton is Korean made and therefore I can't comment with any confidence regarding the quality of the newer Chinese builds.

IMO, Lt. Kojak is correct in his assessment that the Sheraton will benefit greatly from an electronics upgrade.