Pickup replacement for a Godin Kingpin

**malanzas** · 05-19-2014, 03:38 PM

I was wondering about changing the stock pickup of my Godin Kingpin for other with better/different sound. Maybe a Charlie Christian, a P90 or a Humbucker. Any ideas/experiences?

**mr. beaumont** · 05-19-2014, 04:06 PM

That stock pickup is great! What kind of tone are you looking for?

**malanzas** · 05-19-2014, 05:06 PM

Yes, I know the sound of the Godin p90 is good, but I ask myself if with other p90 would sound better. On the other side, how will this guitar sound with a humbucker? Or, if we put a CC on it?
I find the stock pickup sound good, but a little brilliant and acoustic for my taste. I look for a more electric, warm, creamy sound, like Barney Kessel ES-350.

**D.G.** · 05-19-2014, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by malanzas

I look for a more warm, creamy sound, like Barney Kessel ES-350.

Huh. I've heard some Barney Kessel tones that'd peel paint with brightness. With a Kingpin, if you're using a BF Fender type amp, plug into the second input and then dial back the tone knob a bit.

**Chazmo** · 05-20-2014, 07:58 PM

You might try adjusting the pickup pole pieces first. The Kingpin is a very versatile guitar. After I adjusted the poles on the one I had, I could get anything from Gypsy jazz bright acoustic to Joe Pass thick and juicy by changing the tone pot setting and where I picked, close to the bridge or the neck.

**malanzas** · 05-21-2014, 03:23 AM

If I want a thicker tone, I should raise the pole pieces, shouldn't I?

**Jehu** · 05-21-2014, 03:53 AM

I use the method of fretting the highest fret and raising the poles until they're a couple mm below the string. Then just use your ear to even out the relative volumes across the strings. For me this results in the E and G poles being fairly high and the rest being quite low.

I'm pretty happy with the sound I get from those stock P90s.

**Chazmo** · 05-21-2014, 09:25 AM

I do it like Jay, although I use English measurements rather than metric because I live in the US. I actually measure the distance with a rule. Holding down the string at the last fret, I set the top of the pole piece to be 1/16" from the bottom of the string. I set all poles at that distance for starters, forming a arc across the top of the pole pieces that roughly follows the fretboard radius. Then, I can adjust individually to taste.

That 1/16" distance seems to work on most guitars to give it a strong, thick sound. Lowering will give more definition to each note, but thin out the sound.

**Doctor Jeff** · 05-21-2014, 12:03 PM

Not to hijack the thread, but I got an acoustic 5th Avenue recently specifically for the purpose of adding a floating pickup. Since price was an issue, I went with a GFS HB floater. The total cost was $340 for guitar (including shipping and tax), $40 for amp plus jack. The fingerboard on the 5th Avenue extends out over the neck, providing a perfect position underneath the fingerboard for installing a floating pickup. The installation was surprisingly painless--took about an hour. It did require cutting out a small part of the pickguard, though.

I put on D'Addario Pure Nickel 12's--initially a little bright, but seem to be mellowing out with use.

I really like the sound--I was pleasantly surprised by the balance and warmth of this pickup despite the low cost and lack of pickup height adjustment. I will see about adding a soundclip when I get around to it.

I previously had the Kingpin and was also a fan of the P90. Very versatile pickup. I find the floater to be a little more "microphonic" and acoustic at low levels than the P90.

**Chazmo** · 05-21-2014, 04:58 PM

+1 for adding a floating pickup to an acoustic 5th Avenue. I sold my Kingpin and got the acoustic. Mine has a Bartolini installed. It's a thicker sound than the P90, but still retains some of the acoustic tone. Mine is wired straight to the jack with no volume or tone pots. I run it through an Acoustic Image amp, which has very flat voicing, and it sounds great.

I also have a 5th Avenue Jazz with the stock floater. It actually comes closest to the "thick, smoky" jazz sound that a lot of people on this forum are looking for, but all the 5th Avenues are very versatile.

**ruger9** · 05-23-2014, 07:13 AM

Doctor Jeff,

So you added the floater.... but no controls? Is it like Chazmo's... pickup wired straight to the jack?

**ruger9** · 05-23-2014, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by Chazmo

+1 for adding a floating pickup to an acoustic 5th Avenue. I sold my Kingpin and got the acoustic.

I also have a 5th Avenue Jazz with the stock floater. It actually comes closest to the "thick, smoky" jazz sound that a lot of people on this forum are looking for, but all the 5th Avenues are very versatile.

How does the Jazz compare to the acoustic Kingpin ACOUSTICALLY?

**mr. beaumont** · 05-23-2014, 07:31 AM

Pretty similar...mind you, you'll probably have different strings on 'em, which matter. The Jazz is a seriously badass guitar. Godin's floater is one of the darker voiced floaters I've heard...

**ruger9** · 05-23-2014, 08:13 AM

Hmm... if they sound pretty similar, then the std. Kingpin must be a "seriously badass guitar" too? lol I've played the Kingpin with the 1 P-90. Very interesting acoustic sound, even with the body-mounted P90.... acoustically, it sounds more like a flat top than any archtop I've ever played... is that how the jazz sounds?

If I were to get the Jazz, I would probably experiment with a few floaters... I can't help but tinker with things. I wouldn't personally be looking for "dark", I'm more into the clear(er) Johnny Smith tone.

I'm looking at the Jazz, the new Guild A-150, and the EXP-1. Altho I hadn't considered putting a floater on an acoustic Kingpin...

**Doctor Jeff** · 05-23-2014, 08:22 AM

Yes I skipped the controls - I have a Fishman preamp for volume and tone controls. It sounds pretty good straight into the amp as well. I could add them later, just wanted a simple approach for now.

**mr. beaumont** · 05-23-2014, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by ruger9

Hmm... if they sound pretty similar, then the std. Kingpin must be a "seriously badass guitar" too? lol I've played the Kingpin with the 1 P-90. Very interesting acoustic sound, even with the body-mounted P90.... acoustically, it sounds more like a flat top than any archtop I've ever played... is that how the jazz sounds?

If I were to get the Jazz, I would probably experiment with a few floaters... I can't help but tinker with things. I wouldn't personally be looking for "dark", I'm more into the clear(er) Johnny Smith tone.

I'm looking at the Jazz, the new Guild A-150, and the EXP-1. Altho I hadn't considered putting a floater on an acoustic Kingpin...

Yeah, I've always been a big fan of the single pickup Kingpin. I've never played a better inexpensive archtop. Beats the pants off any Ibanez/Epiphone/Washburn whatever. It's gig ready right out of the box, no need to change pickups, inferior electronics, etc.

As for sounding like a flat top, I know Godin says that, but I never hear it. I will give 'em that it has more bass than any other small shallow depth archtop I've played...but it sounds nothing like a flattop to my ears.

As for the Jazz, if you see one check it out. I think it can do the Johnny Smith-ish sounds too. People put way too much weight on the pickup when it comes to some tones...the amp, the microphone, the recording technology of the day, all of those are bigger in the equation than folks think.

**ruger9** · 05-24-2014, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

As for sounding like a flat top, I know Godin says that, but I never hear it. I will give 'em that it has more bass than any other small shallow depth archtop I've played...but it sounds nothing like a flattop to my ears.

.

Personally, I wouldn't say it sounds "like a flat top", but "MORE like a flat top than any other modern ELECTRIC archtop" (I have played). I hate to use the term "woody", but the KP to sounds more woody, more acoustic, and less electric.... all the other archtops I have owned or tried (all electric ones, btw), all sounded like hollowbody ELECTRIC guitars, where the KP sounded more like a flat top that had a pickup added to it.

IDK if it's the cherry wood, or the bracing (or both)...

played acoustically...

my Gretsch sounds like a semi-hollow/335
my Broadway sounds like a big hollow electric (so did my Ibanez)
the Kingpin sounded like a pickup-less acoustic archtop.... I guess that's what I'm getting at when I say it sounded "more like a flat top"

I keep my eyes open for Jazzes and EXL-1s (as well as the Guild A-150), but haven't come across one yet.

**malanzas** · 05-24-2014, 08:15 AM

I have the same opinion about the sound of the KP, ruger9. It's for that I'm thinking about changing the pickup, I want a more electric sound.

**mr. beaumont** · 05-24-2014, 08:24 AM

Pardon my "density," but I'm baffled here...you really can't get an "electric" sound with the stock pickup? What kind of amp are you using? How is it EQ'd?

If you just want to mod the guitar go for it...but if you're trying to solve a specific problem I really think you can do it without spending money.

**malanzas** · 05-24-2014, 08:31 AM

I have played the guitar through a Henriksen, and old Roland Cube and a boutique tube amp, tweaking the controls in both guitar and amp and until now I haven't got the sound I want. Please if you have experience with this guitar, tell me the settings I need for a more electric sound.
Also I have raise the pole pieces and the sound is nearer to my taste. I would prefer not to mod the guitar.
Thanks for your help.

**mr. beaumont** · 05-24-2014, 08:48 AM

Hmmm...this is interesting.

I own one, and a henriksen, and an old princeton...so I have experience with a similar setup.

I'd say first of all, if you want that old school electric tone, you gotta go with the tube amp. What are the controls for EQ on your tube amo? Does it have a "mid" control? Generally, I like boosting mids a bit and cutting some highs, then adding bass to taste...every room is different.

On my old princeton, I run bass and treble at about 7-8 and control tone and volume from the guitar. No mid control.

On the henriksen, I like the "jimmy bruno" settings--every knob at 9 o'clock...with some tweaks to the second knob from the left, again, depending on the room. But this is a much darker, drier, modern tone...it's not a classic 50's jazz tone.

Perhaps the most instant classic jazz tone ive ever got with the kingpin is from plugging it into a single volume knob fender champion reissue. Completely impractical for anything but living room playing, but instant 50's jazz tone...even some "thunk."

**ruger9** · 05-24-2014, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Perhaps the most instant classic jazz tone ive ever got with the kingpin is from plugging it into a single volume knob fender champion reissue. Completely impractical for anything but living room playing, but instant 50's jazz tone...even some "thunk."

+1. That's why I have been shopping for a used C600

**Chazmo** · 05-25-2014, 10:48 AM

My experience with a stock P-90 Kingpin is that it can get into 50s ES-175 territory--fat, electric tone--with the pole pieces adjusted right, the tone rolled back, and picking or strumming towards the neck, over the pickup. It can also get an acoustic sound with the tone up a bit and picking towards the bridge. One of the most versatile guitars I ever had. But it has it's own sound and it will never sound like an L-5. And that's okay, unless L-5 is the sound you really want, and many people on this forum seem to think that's the "jazz sound."

**Chazmo** · 05-25-2014, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Pretty similar...mind you, you'll probably have different strings on 'em, which matter. The Jazz is a seriously badass guitar. Godin's floater is one of the darker voiced floaters I've heard...

My acoustic 5th Avenue is somewhat more "acoustic" sounding than the Jazz, certainly a bit louder unplugged. +1 on the Godin floater being darker than most floaters. Comparing the electric sound of my two Godins, the Bartolini retains more of the acoustic sound, while the Godin Jazz PU heads almost into set-in Classic '57 territory similar to my 175.

I run D'Addario round wounds on both. I like the way they retain the acoustic sound more. I'm not trying to emulate the Gibson sound with my Godins. I have a Gibson strung with flat wounds for that. To me the Godins have their own sound, one I really like.

**jorgemg1984** · 09-28-2014, 08:15 PM

Hello everyone,

I have a Godin Kinpin which has become my favorite cheap guitar ever - use it a lot on all gigs where I am scared of bringing the precious / expensive ones. I have done some mods over the years - ebony bridge, bone nut, all the electronics, bare knuckle manhattan pickup, 012 rounds setup.

Now the P90 has been bugging me lately - picks up noise on some gigs and it forces me to change my pick attack, which I dislike. I am too used to humbuckers I guess... I was going to mod the guitar to have humbuckers but my tech said it's impossible.

So I believe Peter Bilfot can make me an humbucker in a P90 format. The easy route would be a PAF style. But the floating sound - Kent Armstrong, Bartolini, Benedetto - makes me curious and I will soon have 3 archtops with PAFs so diversity would be welcome. Any ideas? Anyone tried floaters with the non pickup version?

Thanks!