Archtop buzzes.

Fidelcaster · #1 12-02-2010, 06:36 AM

I have an almost thirty year old Aria Pro II Herb Ellis, featuring new (freshly installed by a so-so luthier

) nut, frets, pickups, and pots, but also the original mechanics, pickguard, bridge and tailpiece.

The low strings buzz, especially when I play double stops or chords. Luckily, the buzz can only be heard in the acoustic sound, the amplified sound is ok.

Apparently, the pickguard shouldn't be the cause of the noise I hear. I used double-sided tape to cushion its points of contacts with the guitar top and with the pickup rings, but the noise it's still there.

Any clue?

Thank you.

M. Smit · #2 12-02-2010, 11:39 AM

Hi,
From the info you give us it can be anything.
Buzzes however are most unwelcome (I feel your pain) (-; maybe you have or can obtain a stethoscope this seems the appropriate tool in your hunting the buzz quest.

spiral · #3 12-02-2010, 11:52 AM

Take off the pickguard w/ pickup attached and set it on a table in front of you or have someone hold it so you can isolate if it is the body (tailpiece, tuners, bridge, internal) or something on the pickguard (pickguard, pickup, pot)

Fidelcaster · #4 12-02-2010, 11:59 AM

Thank you for the sympathy!

I tend to exclude that the buzz is produced by the nut, the frets or the pickguard. What are the remaining "usual suspects"?

Fidelcaster · #5 12-02-2010, 12:00 PM

Thank you, Spiral!

goshawk · #6 12-02-2010, 01:33 PM

Do the strings buzz when played open, or only when fretted?

Is the buzz worse at certain frets or the same up and down the neck?

Are the strings the same gauge that were on the instrument before the luthier did the work?

Here's a link that may be helpful:

FRETS.COM

Fidelcaster · #7 12-02-2010, 02:04 PM

The buzz appears when I fret the 4th, 5th and 6th strings. Open strings don't buzz. I think I'm hearing the noise coming from the bridge-tailpiece area (not sure - however, the guitar has recently been refretted, so I'm assuming the work has been done properly). Bridge (which perhaps looks old for its age) and tailpiece are original. The strings (0.12) are a heavier gauge than those that were on the guitar previously.

Thank you very much for the link!

jazzbow · #8 12-02-2010, 03:06 PM

Whats your string action at the 12th fret? 2mm bottom e and 1.5mm top e is what you're aiming for, if you have 0.12 strings you can go lower than this so if the strings buzz it could mean that your neck is too straight (less than .04 clearance at the 8th fret when pressing a string down on the 1st and last fret). There is many other reasons but by what you have posted I would say low action and too straight a neck. As an aside 0.13 flatwound strings can go really low without buzzing. Are your strings roundwound????

bikemike · #9 12-02-2010, 06:04 PM

It sounds like the guitar may be set up for the heaver strings and not the lighter ones you have on there. Many times when you go to a lighter string buzzes creep in for many diffrent reasons. I have used one of those stethoscope for auto repair and found where the buzz is at but that still doesn't tell you what it is.

Fidelcaster · #10 12-03-2010, 03:35 AM

Action at the 12th fret (6th string) is 2 mm. A business/visiting card (about 0.5 mm thick) easily slides between the 6th string (pressed down on last fret only, since I don't have a capo) but pushes the string up a tiny bit.

Do I have to adjust the trussrod and/or the bridge and/or the octaves?

Thank you all.

Fidelcaster · #11 12-03-2010, 03:39 AM

I have to remark that the buzz is only annoying when I play double stops or chords; when playing single notes it's almost unnoticeable.

M. Smit · #12 12-03-2010, 03:41 AM

adjust and play with bridge height first if you suspect string rattle

Fidelcaster · #13 12-03-2010, 04:13 AM

Raising the bridge, with the action between 12th fret and 6th string at about 2.6 mm

, the buzz is still there.

M. Smit · #14 12-03-2010, 04:14 AM

are you sure it is string rattle than?

Fidelcaster · #15 12-03-2010, 04:39 AM

Not at all!

rpguitar · #16 12-03-2010, 05:26 AM

Just a thought, but the fact that it occurs only with chords makes it sound like back buzz. That's the length of string *behind* the fretted notes (between nut and your hand; oops, that doesn't sound very nice...).

Try muting the strings back there with your picking hand, while holding down the chord and letting it ring. If the buzz stops, you found it.

vejesse · #17 12-03-2010, 07:39 AM

It sounds like you need to take your guitar to a luthier who will go the distance. Are the frets level? What's the string height? How much relief? Does your guitar have a "rising tongue"? Time to go back to the basics.

audiotrax · #18 12-03-2010, 08:05 AM

I had an annoying buzz on my ES 175 which I eventually discovered was the ball ends of some of the strings vibrating against the underside of the tailpiece. I solved this by wrapping a small piece of plumbers tape around the ball endings on the three treble strings.

jazzguyfromnc · #19 12-03-2010, 10:29 AM

Might want to check neck relief too...

amusiathread · #20 12-04-2010, 06:15 PM

One of my archtops has a tendency to get noisy between the tailpiece and the bridge. This is easily remedied by using something to damben the strings.

Also, have you considered that you might have a loose brace inside the guitar? This might be something only a good luthier can fix.

apenanti · #21 12-16-2011, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidelcaster

I have an almost thirty year old Aria Pro II Herb Ellis, featuring new (freshly installed by a so-so luthier

) nut, frets, pickups, and pots, but also the original mechanics, pickguard, bridge and tailpiece.

The low strings buzz, especially when I play double stops or chords. Luckily, the buzz can only be heard in the acoustic sound, the amplified sound is ok.

Apparently, the pickguard shouldn't be the cause of the noise I hear. I used double-sided tape to cushion its points of contacts with the guitar top and with the pickup rings, but the noise it's still there.

Any clue?

Thank you.

Maybe its a bit late, but i've just discovered the thread. I have the same guitar and i used to have the same problem. Its some parts of the guitar that buzzes. It was the pickups, and the pickguard! I put some small papers to make it stable and buzz stoped.

Fidelcaster · #22 12-16-2011, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apenanti

Maybe its a bit late, but i've just discovered the thread. I have the same guitar and i used to have the same problem. Its some parts of the guitar that buzzes. It was the pickups, and the pickguard! I put some small papers to make it stable and buzz stoped.

The buzz is still there. Thank you!

bigdaddyguitar · #23 12-16-2011, 06:57 PM

Had the same problem . Drove me nuts for the longest time . Did'nt hear it plugged in . Just unplugged . Ended up being the bridge pickup .Stuck a tiny piece of felt between PU ring and PU . Silence . No more rattle, vibration ,buzz .......

EddieLastra · #24 12-16-2011, 07:19 PM

My guitar had an annoying buzz that was frequency sensitive, only occurred when playing a certain note on the 4th string. Turned out to be a broken spot weld on my metal tailpiece. Wedged a small piece of cardboard in between the loose parts till I can get it replaced.

Retroman1969 · #25 12-17-2011, 01:31 AM

One of my Epiphone archtops (can't remember which one) had an annoying rattle on certain notes that I couldn't find for the life of me. It was only on the lower strings. I finally tracked it down to the neck pickup. When I lowered it past a certain point it took all the tension off of it and it vibrated like crazy on certain harmonics. It mostly did it unplugged because I was hitting the strings harder.
Instead of keeping it raised higher than I preferred, I put small rubber washers on the height screws between the pickup and springs to increase spring tension.

May not be your problem, but worth a shot.

apenanti · #26 12-17-2011, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fidelcaster

The buzz is still there. Thank you!

Try hitting a note that buzzes, and then hold one by one the pickups, pickguard, and all the guitar's moving parts. If buzz doesnt come from the frets, somewhere will stop...

Patrick2 · #27 12-17-2011, 08:39 AM

research sympathetic vibration and look towards your tail piece as the culprit.

jazzuki · #28 12-17-2011, 09:33 AM

Could it be the tross-rod?Had the same trouble on mine-drove me mad but took it to my tech and he adjusted/tweaked with the truss-rod.All ok now.

Patrick2 · #29 12-17-2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazzuki

Could it be the tross-rod?Had the same trouble on mine-drove me mad but took it to my tech and he adjusted/tweaked with the truss-rod.All ok now.

The short answer is, no. It probably isn't the truss rod, in this situation. While a poorly adjusted truss rod could cause a back bow . . (upward bow rather than excess relief bow) there would be buzzing all over the neck and not just in the areas the OP described. However, when lumping ALL the possibilities together . . ie . .. eneven or not perfectly level fret heights, bridge height, nut slot height, improper truss rod adjustment . . . then, yes . . . the truss rod could be part of the cause. However, it sounds like the OP and his tech addressed all of those other possibilities.

Obviously, if the buzzing is occuring at the 5th fret . . . then fret the guitar at the 6th position on the 5th and 6th strings and see if the buzzing is still there. If not, then level the frets. I have to assume all of these possibilities have been explored . . . as well as tightening the pup springs or replacing them with a stronger stiffer spring.

Nope!! I'm sticking with sympathetic vibration caused by certain harmonics, affecting something in the tail piece area.

This will sound goofy . . . but, I would try it anyway . . . change out the strings. Go the a brand new set of high quality flat wounds . . . see what that accomplishes. I have seen situations where the wound strings are defective or not properly wound causing an ever so faint buzzing. I'd give it a try. Wouldn't cost more than $15.

oldane · #30 12-17-2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick2

This will sound goofy . . . but, I would try it anyway . . . change out the strings. Go the a brand new set of high quality flat wounds . . . see what that accomplishes. I have seen situations where the wound strings are defective or not properly wound causing an ever so faint buzzing. I'd give it a try. Wouldn't cost more than $15.

I second that. I experienced some hard to locate high pitched buzzing with D'Addario Phosphor Bronze strings on my Triggs Master 400. I recently decided to try out a set of cheap Martin M150 bronze strings, though not for the reason of the buzzing. I was darned - the buzzing stopped. The Martin strings sound fine for rhythm strumming because they are bright and project well - and they only cost 1/5 of the D'Addario strings.

As for buzzing, through my 35 years with guitars, I have experienced buzzing from a loose truss rod, from badly cut nuts, from too deeply cut nuts, from badly designed tailpieces, from strings at the point where they are attached to the tailpiece, from a loose pickguard, from loose tuner buttons. Pickups is also a frequent source of buzzes/rattles. On my Gibson 175, the tip of a saxophone reed has for 25 years been wedged between the PU and the PU mounting ring to stop the PU from rattling sympathetically. Crude, but it works.