The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by westsideryan
    So, would the chord grips be similar to what is used in Gypsy Jazz/Swing? It seems there is quite a lot of material available on Gypsy rhythm.
    Most of the chords can be the same, but in Gypsy there is some grips that is more "advanced" ones that is not so common in New Orleans style and the rhythm in Gypsy is different too.

    A great way to play this style is like ragman1 said, try to find people that play, jams spots, etc. It's the best way and is where all the fun is.

    Quote Originally Posted by westsideryan

    I already own all of Tuba Skinny's albums, but I'll check out BandCamp for the others!


    This is great. I have all Tuba, Vipers, Shotgun and others too.
    Last edited by clebergf; 10-09-2017 at 09:37 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Gypsy jazz is not quite the same thing.

  4. #28

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    I agree, I hear some common gypsy jazz grips here.

    The rhythm is NOT the same.

  5. #29

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    Danny Barker doing the thing at 3:52.



  6. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Want my advice? Don't sit in your room, go and play with other people. Find some players who do this stuff. Watch them. Ask their guitarists. That will definitely help no end.
    I totally agree. I haven't found anyone around here that plays this stuff (I've tried). I'd have to drive to Chicago, which with gas, tolls and parking gets to be real expensive real quick. I used to be down there almost every weekend, but I just don't have the funds right now.

    Maybe I'll email some folks and see if they could give me a lesson or two over Skype.
    Last edited by westsideryan; 10-09-2017 at 10:24 PM.

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by westsideryan
    I totally agree. I haven't found anyone around here that plays this stuff (I've tried). I'd have to drive to Chicago, which with gas, tolls and parking gets to be real expensive real quick. I used to be down there almost every weekend, but I just don't have the funds right now.
    Well, there's nothing to stop you using various source materials to get started with. Have a look at the Mel Bay catalogue or music shops etc. I'm sure you'll think of something!

  8. #32
    I just looked up some chords. Would these shapes be appropriate (maybe drop the note on the high "E"?)?

    Chords used in Dixieland (Trad Jazz) and hot Chicago jazz?-chords-jpg

  9. #33

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    Gypsy chord grips could be a bit different sometime. For example, I like the well known 6th chord shape, like G6 (3x243x), a Gypsy player might choose x5545x shape instead. I do it sometime, but prefer the original. That's just one off the top of my head...

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by westsideryan
    I just looked up some chords. Would these shapes be appropriate (maybe drop the note on the high "E"?)?

    Chords used in Dixieland (Trad Jazz) and hot Chicago jazz?-chords-jpg
    I use most of these chords. I just don't like the sound from this A7. It's very hard for me to play a chord with both 6th and 5th strings together. For this A7 I drop the 3rd and for a 4 note voicing I use the 5th (E) at the 2nd string.

  11. #35

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    I have heard some argue that Maj 7ths were rarely used before the 30s. Maj 6ths were the big thing apparently. I have not studied enough of these styles to say for sure. That said, I do hear how the Maj 6 is used all the time in Western Swing and i do gravitate to the Maj 6 when playing gypsy jazz.

    Django Books has two interesting books by Eddie Lang that could help you out (they can be bought as inexpensive e-books). They are very good.

    Chris Madsen's tribute to Bix has some interesting examples of pre Freddie/Django guitar but not my thing really.

    Last edited by Roberoo; 10-10-2017 at 07:54 AM.

  12. #36

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    Mmm, it's a bit fiddly, isn't it? He might not do that on all tunes, of course. But I suppose us gitar players do get a bit bored of just banging out chords :-)

  13. #37

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    Agreed. this is a more fiddly piece. The album is quite compelling. i like Bix so decided to check it out and although I find things a bit ragged at times the sound of the group as a whole is refreshing.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Mmm, it's a bit fiddly, isn't it? He might not do that on all tunes, of course. But I suppose us gitar players do get a bit bored of just banging out chords :-)

  14. #38

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    That minor 6th gj voicing with the 6th in the bass really annoys bass players.

    In general people think it’s jazz so you have to add notes to chords. Added notes in chords wasn’t a thing so much in the early music.

    Spread triads are a good shout btw.

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberoo
    I have heard some argue that Maj 7ths were rarely used before the 30s. Maj 6ths were the big thing apparently. I have not studied enough of these styles to say for sure. That said, I do hear how the Maj 6 is used all the time in Western Swing
    Interestingly enough, that's a pretty common misconception-- the I chord in Western swing is most often straight up major.

    But yes--no major 7ths...and m6 (or again, triad) is preferred for minor tonic. NOT m7.

    As it is in the early jazz stuff-- although the Vipers are a fine example of a rhythm guitarist pulling ideas from a few different sources/eras and it sounds great.

    Tradition for the sake of tradition is overrated.

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by clebergf
    I use most of these chords. I just don't like the sound from this A7. It's very hard for me to play a chord with both 6th and 5th strings together. For this A7 I drop the 3rd and for a 4 note voicing I use the 5th (E) at the 2nd string.

    My general rule is, if I'm playing the 6th string--I'm NOT playing the 5th as well...

    For me, I like the sound of fretting fuller chords, even if I'm not hitting all the notes.

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    My general rule is, if I'm playing the 6th string--I'm NOT playing the 5th as well...

    For me, I like the sound of fretting fuller chords, even if I'm not hitting all the notes.
    I think this is only one chord that I use and like it that has 6th and 5th strings:

    x
    x
    6
    x
    7
    5
    Last edited by clebergf; 10-16-2017 at 03:41 PM.

  18. #42

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    I really like x 7 7 6 5 x as a major (triad) chord shape for rhythm (So my example is an A major)

    Works great for songs that go right to the Vaug sound...You've got a friend in that chord shape.

  19. #43

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    I like that one too. Also 9 x 7 9 x x
    and 13 x 12 15 x x get a lot of use, so to speak.

    Btw the most common place to have a maj7 is on degree iv. Also 7-6 resolutions.

    Classical harmony stuff sounds good in this context.

  20. #44

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    Also augmented triads and 7+5 chords are very common choices for dominants

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    My general rule is, if I'm playing the 6th string--I'm NOT playing the 5th as well...

    For me, I like the sound of fretting fuller chords, even if I'm not hitting all the notes.
    Yeah that was one of the big voicing rules I learned early on in jazz guitar.

    It’s very fashionable atm in modern jazz to have chords with 5 and 6 together - esp 4ths and 5ths.

  22. #46

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    It is interesting how often augmented harmonies were found in early jazz (e.g. Bix, Red Nichols) and whole tone lines of course. It was a real flavour in the music that seemed to fade as jazz developed. But you can see how someone like Bix would have a point of contact with Debussy and Ravel through the use of whole tone harmonies.... and produce In a Mist with its crazy but compelling mix of Debussy and Rag-time:




    Sorry...getting far from the intent of the OP.



    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Also augmented triads and 7+5 chords are very common choices for dominants

  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by westsideryan
    I just signed up for Matt Munisteri's new Peghead Nation course "Roots of Jazz Guitar", but the course has started out with playing in a "Freddie Green style" which I am not all that interested in (although I may stick with it just because it maybe useful later on).
    Don’t be too quick in dismissing the Munisteri course. Most of what you’re looking for is in there, including a very good chart with all the “grips” you need for both comping and chord melody. Another great source is Jonathan Stout’s swing guitar blog. I’ve been digging the older post up during Xmas and it’s a treasure trove.

    You seem to draw a hard and fast separation between swing and hot jazz. But one evolved from the other and there’s really a lot in common, especially in the harmony and in the chords used. Heck, as Munisteri points out, “Freddie Green chords” were banjo voicings transposed to the guitar, and used ever since the guitar became the rhythm instrument in jazz bands in the 20s.

    I would also say that I’ve been in quite a few trad jazz jams lately, and the guitarists do just that: “Freddie Green” chords for comping 90% of the time, 4-to-bar or boom-chick, and block-chord soloing.

    So, before looking elsewhere I’d look harder into what you have already – it may be just what you’re seeking.

    Happy playing!

    PS: whatever you do play tunes, and in doing so find the three or four progressions that are ubiquitous in this music. This has helped me understand more than anything else.