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@joe2758, if you are asking me about what BH says on the DVD he demonstrates resolving each time he borrows a note. He calls it "going home". Again, that doesn't mean you can't experiment or have a different sense of musical tastes.
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03-16-2018 01:23 PM
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No, I was asking Boston Joe which he was practicing. Barry teaches both ways
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I was trying two things. 1) Resolving the note back to the chord, and 2) resolving the rest of the chord to the borrowed note. I haven't tried carrying a borrowed voice through multiple chords yet.
Originally Posted by joe2758
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this whole vid is awesome, but check out the lesson on borrowing starting around the 6 min mark. such a cool sound
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Very interesting. Thanks!
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I have only worked into my actual playing borrowing up, and only using the alto voice. It’s a lot to digest considering all the different voicings there are to memorize. I’ve got a couple of pet moves that I like: basically enclosures around the targeted Imaj chord. For example, I play the chord above, then the chord below, each borrowing the alto note from the next chord up the maj6 scale and resolve to the targeted Imaj chord.
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Just popping in with a minor discovery. If you use a minor 6 instead of a minor 7 on major tonic chords--e.g., Amin6 for Cmaj, instead of Amin7--you get a #11. I bet you all knew this already, but I just stumbled across it this weekend.
That is all.
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Hah! Actually, I found this last night myself. Originally Posted by dingusmingus
("Minor" discovery. I see what you did there.)
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If you use a min/maj7 you get maj7#5
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Indeed! I'm finding all sorts of stuff in this system. Truly remarkable what you can derive from two scales that only differ by one note. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Isn't this all just different ways of getting to the same place?
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not exactly because what you end up with is a scale of chords that sounds different than going diatonically through a mode
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for instance with dingus's example you get a scale with both the perfect and raised fourth
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In the end, there are only 12 notes. All roads have to converge there. Originally Posted by gnatola
What the BH system does is give you a way to bring motion into the picture. I can move confidently through the chords in a BH scale, because there's no shift in tonality. I'm going from 6th chord to "relative diminished" to 6th. If I were playing through a major scale, I'd hit IV chords and II chords that would pull away from the basic tonality. I can still play those if I want, but I have to do it on purpose rather than as a consequence of just moving through the scale.
Plus, the whole "borrowing" thing gives you a way to find great voicings that you might not discover if you were just playing through the major scale. And you can move those voicings around just like you can with the basic chord.
We talk a lot about what the chords are, because it's a lot of work to shift your thinking, but the point of the whole thing is movement. (I'd love to hear the playing of someone who only ever learned the BH system, rather than coming at it from more traditional approaches.)
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Funny thing about that is I firmly believe this way of thinking is closer to the traditional way pre-modal players learned Originally Posted by Boston Joe
You might be hard pressed to find a player that started with and learned BH stuff only. I think Pasquale grasso started with it before he was a teenager.
I know I for one view all jazz harmony (I don't play anything modern though) through this lens for the past 2 years or so and everything makes more sense.
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I don't doubt it. It seems to make a lot of sense, although I admit, the mental shift is difficult for me. I've learned everything in relation to the root of the written chord. So I even tend to see something like a tritone sub as just a shortcut to certain alterations. But I've been playing around with the "family of four" idea for a while, and decided to delve into this partly because I can see the value in having a better understanding of relative relationships. Originally Posted by joe2758
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Hey guys,
I got to thinking today and it randomly occurred to me:
The b3 diminished chord pulls to the I or the ii, right?
It pulls to the V as well because that is the related dim for the dom7/dim scale
A group of 7 chords that can pull to the 1,2, or 5
Talk about flexible
Pretty simple connection, but I don't recall it being in the book
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If I'm seeing it correctly, the vanilla V chord is the ii-6 anyway. (Right? G9=D-6?) Originally Posted by joe2758
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correct!
Though I think more in dom 7th chords and their dom7th dim scales these days.
In key of C, b3 dim is Eb dim
which creates D7, F7 (ever wonder about the IV7-I in Tenderly?), Ab7, and B7
which creates D7b5/Ab7b5 and F7b5/B7b5
All of these chords have a reated dom/dim chord scale.
So right there is 6 chord scales that resolve to a 1, 2, or 5
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Another find: The I6 - Iº - IV6 - Iº - I6 move on page 28 is just an embellishment of the Basie ending.
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I've never heard of "The Basie Ending," but that's certainly what it sounds like!
I was playing that progression the other day and used Drop 2 (1-4 string), Drop 3( 5, 1-3), then drop 2 and 4 (5-4, 2-1) respectively then back up. Sounds awesome
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I mean, this basically moving in and out of the form of a minor blues, if the i and iv chords are minor (whether that is a quick switch to the iv or a ii-V to the iv, the I dim acts as a secondary dominant to the iv. Originally Posted by Boston Joe
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huh? minor blues? Originally Posted by NSJ
A secondary dominant to 4 comes from another group of chords
I mean however it makes sense in your mind, but the explanation in the BH materials is a lot more eloquent
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Sorry typo. It would be the I#dim that moves to the IV chord or iv chord. I.e. Originally Posted by joe2758
Key of C, IV is F. Secondary Dominant is C7b9, which is related to C#dim. C#dim acts as chord of movement. I guess C dim could as well.
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right, the #i dim pulls to ii/IV, the i dim pulls to the I AND the ii/IV (latter being the point of the progression).
Doesn't bringing minor into it just ad confusion?
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