Herbie Hancock's comping with Miles Davis Quintet (looking for transcriptions)

[JazzNote]

Does anyone know about any transcriptions of Herbie Hancock's comping in the Miles Davis Quintet (and possibly the adaption of the voicings to guitar)?

TIA

[grahambop]

Try Googling herbie Hancock comping transcriptions - I saw one or two likely links out there somewhere.

[Irez87]

For my next lesson with Jeb Patton, I'll ask about Herbie. Jeb is an expert at transcribing piano comping (he is a pianist himself) and wrote a great book on comping that I would really recommend, even for us guitarists. I'm also interested in Herbie as well. But I won't be having another lesson with Jeb for at least another couple of months. I will share whatever he allows me to share here. Dig?

[GuitarGerry]

There's at least one transcription book that I'm aware of. I've worked out one or two things myself. This is a beauty, it's a A13 chord that has both the third and the 11th/4th in it:

G (4th string), D (3rd string), F# (2nd string), C# (1st string).

I've given this chord in the key of A so that you can play an open 5th string, to hear the full effect. Ordinarily you'd just keep everything on the top 4 strings (let the bass player fill out the lower end)

Note that the 3rd is a maj7th above the 4th. This avoids the usual semitonal/mi 9th clash that you normally get if you try to incorporate the 11th and 3rd. Pretty clever trick.

After playing the chord, if you resolve the 11th onto the third, and bring the 3rd on the top string down to a 9th, it helps establish the tonality. Plus gives a little movement/variety.

[Irez87]

Like this?

x.x.5.7.7.9

to

x.x.11.11.9.12

Or this...

x.x.5.7.7.9

x.x.9.7.6.x

x.x.11.8.10

x.x.7.6.3.x

x.0.0.2.x.x

[GuitarGerry]

x.x.5.7.7.9


to


x.x.5.6.7.7.

Assuming the 'x's are muted strings?

[Irez87]

not muted, just not played. I got it from another person on the forum, makes talking about voicings a little easier, IMO. I thought you meant the 3rd and 9th of the I chord, now I see :0

[GuitarGerry]

not muted, just not played. I got it from another person on the forum, makes talking about voicings a little easier, IMO. I thought you meant the 3rd and 9th of the I chord, now I see :0

'Not played' is what I meant. Anyway, all clear now.

[JazzNote]

For my next lesson with Jeb Patton, I'll ask about Herbie. Jeb is an expert at transcribing piano comping (he is a pianist himself) and wrote a great book on comping that I would really recommend, even for us guitarists. I'm also interested in Herbie as well. But I won't be having another lesson with Jeb for at least another couple of months. I will share whatever he allows me to share here. Dig?

Great, looking forward to it! Thanks.

[JazzNote]

There's at least one transcription book that I'm aware of. I've worked out one or two things myself. This is a beauty, it's a A13 chord that has both the third and the 11th/4th in it:

G (4th string), D (3rd string), F# (2nd string), C# (1st string).

I've given this chord in the key of A so that you can play an open 5th string, to hear the full effect. Ordinarily you'd just keep everything on the top 4 strings (let the bass player fill out the lower end)

Note that the 3rd is a maj7th above the 4th. This avoids the usual semitonal/mi 9th clash that you normally get if you try to incorporate the 11th and 3rd. Pretty clever trick.

After playing the chord, if you resolve the 11th onto the third, and bring the 3rd on the top string down to a 9th, it helps establish the tonality. Plus gives a little movement/variety.

Thanks!
Question: which transcription book are you aware of? Have you seen it? What exactly is the content?

[JazzNote]

to GuitarGerry

x.x.5.7.7.9


to


x.x.5.6.7.7.

nice one, could probably be used as Em13 to A13

[JazzNote]

to Irez87

Nice

x.x.5.7.7.9 (A13)

to

x.x.11.11.9.12 (DMaj9 sharp 11)

x.x.9.7.6.x (D7b9/B7b9/Ab7b9/F7b9 or C/A/Gb/Eb diminished)

x.x.11.8.10 ==> which string is missing here?

x.x.7.6.3.x what would you use this for?

x.0.0.2.x.x what would you use this for?

[GuitarGerry]

x.x.5.7.7.9


to


x.x.5.6.7.7.

nice one, could probably be used as Em13 to A13

I prefer using it as an 'ornamentation' of a dominant chord. Tonic of a modal blues sort of thing.

Re the transcription book, I have no idea what it's called. Someone on the Keyboard Magazine forum (Keyboard Corner) once posted a page or two. I'm pretty sure it was from a book of Herbie transcriptions and not one of his pieces included in a compilation of jazz pianist transcriptions. Can't be any more help that that, sorry.

[PMB]

This article doesn't deal with comping as such but it's a fascinating interview with Herbie about what he actually played over Wayne Shorter's "Nefertiti":

Herbie Hancock - The "Nefertiti" Interview

[JazzNote]

to PMB

thanks so much, that's a wealth of material!

[grahambop]

If you scroll down this page, there is a comping transcription of 'One Finger Snap' (from Herbie's 'Empyrean Isles' LP) which you can download as a PDF:

Colin Campbell, Pianist

[JazzNote]

thank you Colin

[grahambop]

thank you Colin

Just to be clear, I'm not Colin and I didn't do the transcription! But thanks to Colin for it anyway!

[JazzNote]

Just to be clear, I'm not Colin and I didn't do the transcription! But thanks to Colin for it anyway!

Yes thanks to Colin and to you ....
(the link looked a bit like a signature, but it did feel a bit strange to have a pianist posting here ;-))

[Cunamara]

Man, Herbie's comping is just... just... hell, it's perfect so often. I was listening to Wayne Shorter's "See No Evil" today in the car and every note he plays is the perfect note in the perfect place at the perfect time. Man.

[Irez87]

Here is an except of my correspondence between me and Steve Herberman. He teaches through Skype these days (though I much prefer in person lessons, he is still great )

"Steve [Herberman] May 2nd, 2015


Although I was a little nervous, I had fun with the last Skype lesson. I have been practicing harmonizing a chromatic line through Lady Bird and it is helping open up my comps. Do you have availability on days other than Thursday? I play in a basement jam session those days (playing with great jazz players helps me progress). I could send you clips of my playing with others to get a sense of how I comp in a full setting.


To give you a sense of where I want to go with my playing and what I want to work on, I thought I would give you some quick notes. Let me know what you think.


Comping that moves me:

Jim Hall with Paul Desmond, Art Farmer, and Jimmy Guiffre. I feel like his comps tell a story like Miles Davis would on a horn. Even his single note counter lines really make the soloist come alive.

Bill Evans. He has this groove that is often over looked. Been listening to California, Here I Come and he really pushes that groove.

Barry Galbraith

Wynton Kelly. Finally checked him out sans Wes Montgomery and he can swing!

Hank Jones.

Herbie Hancock. Really interesting in the clusters and intervallic stuff he does on that second quintet Miles recordings. [...]"

However, and this is HUGE, the voicings in a vacuum aren't what makes these comps by Herbie, Wynton, Bill, Hank, Jim Hall, and Barry Galbraith interesting. I think we often get lost in the individual voicings as guitarists who are infatuated with piano comping.

Four points to remember, regardless of the musician. The comp sounds great because... (in order of importance)

1. The rhythms they use. This is at the top of the list. Pianists can use dyads (Bud Powell's shells come to mind), but they sound great because the musician who employs them is aware of rhythm. We need a separate entity where we discuss rhythm. Without rhythm, most of what we consider jazz would be nonexistent. Technology is getting me tight, fonts are messing up my post... Listen to how Horace Silver comps behind his soloists. He gets a lot of crap from people who don't understand what he is doing. Listen to those rhythms!

2. How they respond to the soloist. Yeap, this is why teaching comping is so hard. Jeb Patton found an interesting way of teaching comping in his An Approach to Comping book. His book is excellent, but you have to understand that it was written for pianists since he is a pianist. But... he records the transcribed comps with a horn player and then includes the same track without his comping and you comp for the soloist. There has to be some type of interplay between you and the guy or gal in the spotlight, IMO. Even for Rollins, even for Rollins.

3. How they respond to the rest of the band. Don't play Drop 2s in syncopated rhythm if there is a pianist in the band doing the same thing (too much clutter. Be aware of the sonic atmosphere you are creating for the soloist and the audience). If there isn't another comper, listen to the bass movement (s/he creates the harmony and the groove) and the drummer (s/he gives you a guide of where to place your hits or what rhythmic interplay to suggest). Listen back to your favorite recordings to hear what this sounds like.

4. The way the harmony is expressed through multiple chords and voice leading. This does not mean that each voice moves step wise. This means that the musician is aware of the inner melodies created by each voice in the chord, what came before, and where the cadence will land and resolve. This is much harder than memorizing a bunch of stock voicings on any comping instrument, but it is a study that is well worth your time

These are principals I gathered from Jeb, Barry Harris, Steve Herberman, Kenny Wessel, James Chirillo, and listening really really really closely to my favorite recordings. Just stuff to keep in mind I get still seduced by cool voicings as well, but these points bring me back to what is really important on the band stand.

[JazzNote]

I'm convinced that the genius of Herbie Hancock lies within the fact that he plays the right notes in the right spot the right way.

Voicings which contain dissonances have a very different impact compared to consonant voicings. I feel that in order to achieve a balanced density in comping, one needs to be aware that the structure of the voicings is crucial for the tension created, and therefore also for the use of space and rhythm.

[Irez87]

Yes, they are all connected. Exactly. But you have to be aware of all of that and not just go "oh, cool voicing. How can I shove it in front of the next soloist I comp for?"

How many of us are guilty of this? C'mon, don't be prideful I still do this from time to time and I have to catch myself. But I am aware that it isn't the right way to go about comping. You gotta listen and play what is right for the moment. That's why Herbie was Herbie and not an amateur

[wolflen]

comping is an art in itself..so is listening .. to be able to hear "space" and know how to fill it-if it needs to be filled..

some tasty "fills" may just be a partial major scale run in thirds..or a short octave run a la wes..

in most cases three note "partial" chords are ideal for fills..again timing and rhythmic application are key..early Benson on those very hot CTI recordings doing very tasty fills

[edh]

Where do quartal chords fit into the scheme of comping?