Melodic and Harmonic minor scales. What Shapes?

[Claudi]

Like I said this is not difficult, you can download them or much better, write them out yourself.

That's what I did: write all of them out and sent it to Matt Warnock. I highly recomend it.

[Claudi]

the 5 shapes are all part of one big network, and when you can see the entire network, that's when your right brain is beginning to be unleashed.

Remember that you can work out more shapes. There are 7 notes, so you should have 7 shapes. you can also work out shapes of 3 notes per string and also 4 notes per string. This will give a better mastery of the fretboard.

[FatJeff]

Remember that you can work out more shapes. There are 7 notes, so you should have 7 shapes. you can also work out shapes of 3 notes per string and also 4 notes per string. This will give a better mastery of the fretboard.

I don't see a reason for any beyond 5...just complicates things for me. The other two are included in JB's shapes (or CAGED, take your pick), because the 4th is right next to (a half step away from) the 3rd, and the tonic is right next to (a half step away from) the 7th. Thus no shape 1 and no shape 4.

Of course, everyone has their own way of doing it, but to me, JB's 5 shapes cover the fretboard completely.

[Claudi]

I only said it will give you a better mastery of the fretboard, but if 5 shapes are enough for you to me it's ok.

[randalljazz]

Remember that you can work out more shapes. There are 7 notes, so you should have 7 shapes. you can also work out shapes of 3 notes per string and also 4 notes per string. This will give a better mastery of the fretboard.

no, there are only five different pitches of open string. that is the governing principle.

[Claudi]

Alright.

[jimmyb]

you guys have lost me and made it much more complicated.

jb

[FatJeff]

no, there are only five different pitches of open string. that is the governing principle.

I'm struggling to understand this...can you explain in a bit more detail?

[randalljazz]

I'm struggling to understand this...can you explain in a bit more detail?

i don't know if i can or not! but i'll give it a shot. first, a 'position' means that the hand stays in one place, and there is one (left hand) finger per fret--occasionally this principle is 'bent' by an extension or temporary shift.

A. 7th position, C major, with C on the 6th string (call it 'F' type). play two octaves, no stretch or shift required. notice that tonic is under the same finger on the first string--which is the same "pitch class" (same note name, different octave) played open as is the sixth string. one may conclude (correctly) that any type of (scale or other) pattern anchored by a note on the sixth string will be the same as that note on the first string.

B. 5th position, C on the sixth string, will yield similar result, but requires an extension or temporary shift. (you could call this 'G' type.)

C. 1st position, C on the fifth string, gives from the 3th degree of the scale below tonic to the 5th two octaves and a mi3rd higher, without shift or extension. ('C' type.)

D. 2nd position, C on the fifth string, gives from the 5th below tonic to the 6th above (+ octave), but requires a shift. ( 'Bb' type, no shift required for first position.)

E. 9th position, C on the 4th string, gives from the 2nd below to the 4th above (+ octave), but requires two shifts.

and that's all there is. with 4th string C, tonic under the fourth finger, same as pattern A. C on 3rd string: notes toward the nut = pattern D, notes toward the bridge = pattern B. C on the 2nd string: tenth position, notes toward the nut = pattern E, notes toward the bridge = pattern C. C on the first string: notes toward the nut = pattern B, notes toward the bridge = pattern A.

of course, you can space notes on one string, to the extent of your reach and shift capability, but this yields hybrid positions of the above, or, taken to the extreme, transcend/ignores the concept of position entirely...nothing wrong with that!

[Claudi]

Hey, randalljazz. I think we're not refering to the same thing.
Could you make the effort of showing this in a tablature? It's not that I like tablatures but when it comes to see things on the fretboard it's the only way...or maybe scale graphics. The point is that I don't understand that when playing and starting on the 6th string you can pass from a 7th position, to a 5th, and to a 1st, back to a 2nd and to a 9th. I don't see the relation between any of the positions. That's why I think we're not talking about the same thing.

Thank you!

[randalljazz]

Hey, randalljazz. I think we're not refering to the same thing.
Could you make the effort of showing this in a tablature? It's not that I like tablatures but when it comes to see things on the fretboard it's the only way...or maybe scale graphics. The point is that I don't understand that when playing and starting on the 6th string you can pass from a 7th position, to a 5th, and to a 1st, back to a 2nd and to a 9th. I don't see the relation between any of the positions. That's why I think we're not talking about the same thing.

Thank you!

the relation is that these are the FIVE POSSIBLE POSITIONS for the C major scale. take your guitar and work it through line by line, and you will understand (or don't )...

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

With these systems like CAGED, isn't there often at least two ways to play a position: open or closed? For example, Here is a G major scale, closed:
[chord]
||---|-1-|-2-|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-2-|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-1-|---|-3-|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-1-|---|-3-|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|-1-|-2-|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-2-|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
[/chord]
And open (often skipping a fret between index and middle finger) in the same "position":
[chord]
||---|---|-1-|---|-2-|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|-2-|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-1-|-2-|---|---|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-1-|-2-|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|-2-|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|-2-|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|
[/chord]
or even:
[chord]
||---|---|---|---|-1-|---|-3-|-4-|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|---|-1-|---|-3-|-4-|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-1-|-2-|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|---|-1-|-2-|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|-2-|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|-2-|---|-4-|---|---|---|---|
[/chord]
I guess there's always more than one way to do something.

[Claudi]

Ah! Ok, I understood you BigDaddy. That's what I do.
Randalljazz, the kind of shapes I was refering to are the ones that BigDaddy uses.

[Claudi]

I guess there's always more than one way to do something.

There's more than meets the eye, right?

[randalljazz]

F major scale

||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-1-|-2-|---|-3-|---|-4-|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|-1-|-2-|---|-3-|---|-4-|
||---|---|---|---|---|---|-1-|---|-2-|-3-|---|-4-|
||---|---|---|---|-1-|---|-2-|-3-|---|-4-|---|
||---|---|-1-|---|-2-|---|-3-|-4-|---|---|---|
||-1-|---|-2-|---|-3-|-4-|---|---|---|---|---|

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Now let's incorporate some right-hand tapping in these scales

[Claudi]

Great! The 2 of you.