Begin Your Ideas, Lines, Phrases, etc. on any Note You Choose.

[StevenA]

Often times the question arises what CAN be played over a chord sequence as opposed to what WILL be played. Can, is somewhat obscure and maybe not efficiently directional, where Will is deliberate and instantaneous. Utilizing
chromatics, modern tritone chord sub, enclosures, leading tones, anticipation, and delayed resolution, and playing over the bar line, soloists begin and end their improvisations on any note that ultimately directs them to agreeable resolutions. Becoming adept at choosing strong resolutions will permit playing virtually anything over anything. (Think of a chord and any arp to play over, and it could probably be found in Jack Zucker’s Dodecaphonics chart).

[ragman1]

Begin Your Ideas, Lines, Phrases, etc. on any Note You Choose.

Personally, I'd re-phrase your title:

Begin your ideas, lines, phrases, etc, on any note you choose... providing you know where you're going

[wolflen]

Agree..this is my playbook..using melodic direction and rhythmic structure..harmonic expansion is open..

composers in the classic school may be limited by past harmonic restraints (rules) but given the same structure

today musicians like Zappa..Govan ..Shorter.. fusion players..and multi-genre explorers- Miles..McLaughlin et al..often crash into bar lines..time and key signatures

and the world dosen't seem to be bothered one bit.

My use of diminished and augmented scales and related chords against existing composition material is agreeable to musicians I play with
to most that listen and my ears!

[ragman1]

I've just tried to write a line over Dm7 - G7 - CM7 starting with F# on the Dm, C on the G7, and F on the CM7.

Try it, it's not easy to make it sound kosher :-)

[StevenA]

I've just tried to write a line over Dm7 - G7 - CM7 starting with F# on the Dm, C on the G7, and F on the CM7.

Try it, it's not easy to make it sound kosher :-)

As quickly as I could:
Tristano starts Line Up at bar 90 with F over Dbm7
Rosenwinkle starts Be-Bop at bar 20 with G# over Ebmaj7
Playing the 4th over a dominant chord is everywhere, it’s the b7 of the related ii sub.

[pamosmusic]

I've just tried to write a line over Dm7 - G7 - CM7 starting with F# on the Dm, C on the G7, and F on the CM7.

Try it, it's not easy to make it sound kosher :-)

Sure. It's all about what happens next.

F# just sitting there might be weird, but it resolves up to G, which is the 11th of the Dminor and leaves you lots of cool places to go.
C over the G7 is everywhere and is just a tension note that likes to resolve down to be. Same for the F over Cmaj.

[mr. beaumont]

"There are no bad notes, only shitty resolutions that should be punishable by death."

I think that's how the quote goes.

[GuyBoden]

I've just tried to write a line over Dm7 - G7 - CM7 starting with F# on the Dm, C on the G7, and F on the CM7.

Try it, it's not easy to make it sound kosher :-)

Seems easy, as long as you land on a chord tone.

Something like this is rhythmically a bit more interesting.

[StevenA]

I've just tried to write a line over Dm7 - G7 - CM7 starting with F# on the Dm, C on the G7, and F on the CM7.

Try it, it's not easy to make it sound kosher :-)

Try this: straight 8ths
F# G F# E F…( enclosure) E D C# C
A F D ( descending to Dm7 arp) Db E
G F# F ( dim triad leading chromatically to 4th of Cmaj7) Db Eb F E C D E ( 1/2 step delayed resolution to Cmaj7)

[GuyBoden]

Yes, you can start on any note you want, as long as rhythmically it works and lands on a chord tone.

Rhythm is key, personally I'd need to anticipate the next chord.

[ragman1]

I already did that stuff :-)

[StevenA]

Yes, you can start on any note you want, as long as rhythmically it works and lands on a chord tone.

Rhythm is key, personally I'd need to anticipate the next chord.

Many resolutions often end on an enclosure, delayed resolution.

[emanresu]

Often times the question arises .....

Often times I ask myself how many questions can arise about improvisation.
Just in case (because it's the Internet) - not mocking. I really do that often

[GuyBoden]

I already did that stuff :-)

So have I, but I like to repeat it again and again and again and again, to be certain I know it.

[StevenA]

Rosenwinkle on Ornithology begins bar 55 Fm7 Bb7 Ebmaj7, with an F#min7 arp and Bmaj scale leading to an Eb (4th) note beginning Bb7 to an early Eb triad
resulting in anticipation of Ebmaj7
The point is, the color palette becomes almost infinite and the player’s will takes over.

[ragman1]

Begin Your Ideas, Lines, Phrases, etc. on any Note You Choose.

In any case, if it's any note you want, why not the usual lines we play anyway?

[StevenA]

Begin Your Ideas, Lines, Phrases, etc. on any Note You Choose.

In any case, if it's any note you want, why not the usual lines we play anyway?

Because they’re usual?

[ragman1]

Because they’re usual?

No, because they are, or should be, natural to the player and not contrived. That doesn't mean there's no room for improvement and better lines.

In any case, 'unusual' lines may not necessarily be better lines.

You said:

Becoming adept at choosing strong resolutions will permit playing virtually anything over anything.

Sorry, I know you said virtually but, even so, I don't believe in playing 'anything over anything'. I don't know what it means. I assume we're not talking about so-called free jazz.

[pamosmusic]

Seems easy, as long as you land on a chord tone.

Something like this is rhythmically a bit more interesting.

In ragmans defense, I call foul on making the weird notes pickups.

[AllanAllen]

No, because they are, or should be, natural to the player and not contrived. That doesn't mean there's no room for improvement and better lines.

In any case, 'unusual' lines may not necessarily be better lines.

You said:



Sorry, I know you said virtually but, even so, I don't believe in playing 'anything over anything'. I don't know what it means. I assume we're not talking about so-called free jazz.

I’m with Ragman.

Don’t try to impress music majors who are jealous of your gig, instead play stuff that’ll get you booked again.

[pamosmusic]

I’m with Ragman.

Don’t try to impress music majors who are jealous of your gig, instead play stuff that’ll get you booked again.

Caveat here — I am a former jealous music major.

But.

The whole “you can play anything over anything” idea is a very weird thing that I think people argue about and neither side particular knows what they or the other mean.

So maybe the best way of putting this is that you can’t play anything over anything, but you can play *any note over any chord*

If you play a weird note over a chord, then just resolve it to a stable note and you’re there. Thats uncontroversial and everyone does that. For what it’s worth, it’s mucked up by the vocabulary of “avoid notes” which is kind of obnoxious.

Another way to think about it is that you might learn a cool, simple Grant green lick over a minor chord. Could you also play the lick on the third of a major chord to get a nice sound? Sure. The sixth of a major chord? Sure. Could you replace the minor triad with a major triad so you get the same vocabulary with a major sound? Sure. Could you play it from the fifth to get a nice sound? Sure. Could you play it from the flat second and resolve it like a side-slip? Sure. From the seventh like a side-slip? Sure.

You very rapidly get to a place where you can play this lick in basically every possible relationship to the chord you’re on and it will work.

But if you play the same notes with lame rhythm and no interesting idiomatic jazz crap, it will absolutely sound terrible. The odd thing is that it will sound bad if that stuff is missing and all the notes are straightforwardly inside the chord too.

Because the important thing is not that the theory works or that the notes are correct. The important thing is that the line sounds good.

[pamosmusic]

Second caveat … I’m not entirely sure I understand the OP, but I kind of think it’s along these lines.

[AllanAllen]

The whole “you can play anything over anything” idea is a very weird thing that I think people argue about and neither side particular knows what they or the other mean.

You know that clip of Julian Lage playing Charlie Christians guitar, and the clip says it's Seven Come Eleven, but it's really 4 minutes of bullshit noodling and people say it's amazing? That's exactly what I'm talking about when I say anything over anything.

[pamosmusic]

You know that clip of Julian Lage playing Charlie Christians guitar, and the clip says it's Seven Come Eleven, but it's really 4 minutes of bullshit noodling and people say it's amazing? That's exactly what I'm talking about when I say anything over anything.

You can always count on Allan for the Confidently Controversial Opinion.

Not saying I agree with your assessment, but the operative word in that assessment is “noodling.”

Which translates to … this sounds aimless and is not compelling to me. Which is exactly what I mean. I guarantee you I could find passages from solos you love that make no harmonic sense whatsoever.

The important thing is that you like the lines and think they sound compelling. The harmony matters a lot less than we tend to think.

It also doesn’t mean you shouldn’t learn to play inside the lines first.

[pauln]

In ragmans defense, I call foul on making the weird notes pickups.

Or as Miles said, "Everything's a pickup..."