Begin Your Ideas, Lines, Phrases, etc. on any Note You Choose.

[pamosmusic]

Or as Miles said, "Everything's a pickup..."

Well played.

I suppose I meant that if you’re going to show F# over a D minor, I’d go for the gold and put it on the D minor side of the barline.

[AllanAllen]

You can always count on Allan for the Confidently Controversial Opinion.

Not saying I agree with your assessment, but the operative word in that assessment is “noodling.”

Which translates to … this sounds aimless and is not compelling to me. Which is exactly what I mean. I guarantee you I could find passages from solos you love that make no harmonic sense whatsoever.

The important thing is that you like the lines and think they sound compelling. The harmony matters a lot less than we tend to think.

It also doesn’t mean you shouldn’t learn to play inside the lines first.

I think I’m just upset it was so much noodling and I was expecting to hear some good old time swing music. Then, as it kept going, I was reading a bunch of YouTube comments about how much better he is than Charlie Christian and Wes Montgomery. So frustrating, also so childish of me to hold onto this for like… what, a year?

[pamosmusic]

I think I’m just upset it was so much noodling and I was expecting to hear some good old time swing music. Then, as it kept going, I was reading a bunch of YouTube comments about how much better he is than Charlie Christian and Wes Montgomery. So frustrating, also so childish of me to hold onto this for like… what, a year?

Let me show you where your problem is.

I was reading a bunch of YouTube comments

^^^^

never a good idea.

[GuyBoden]

I've just tried to write a line over Dm7 - G7 - CM7 starting with F# on the Dm, C on the G7, and F on the CM7.

Try it, it's not easy to make it sound kosher :-)

In ragmans defense, I call foul on making the weird notes pickups.

I think Ragman's challenge is easy to do, but does it sound kosher?, personally I'd use a strong rhythmic element and land on the chord tones.

At first, I tried this, but I wasn't convinced, but it does meet Ragman's challenge criteria.

The strong rhythmic element makes it sort of nearly work. But, as everything, context is everything.

[pamosmusic]

I think Ragman's challenge is easy to do, but does it sound kosher?, personally I'd use a strong rhythmic element and land on the chord tones.

At first, I tried this, but I wasn't convinced, but it does meet Ragman's challenge criteria.

The strong rhythmic element makes it sort of nearly work. But, as everything, context is everything.

Seems a little smart for its own good. Like over the Dm7, if you’re aiming for G, why not just go from the F# to the G?

I see the parallel structure you’re working with there, but I don’t think things work just because there’s a sequence to hold the melody together. The sequence in the melody has to be strong. Or the melodic logic has to be strong—i.e. the notes resolve in super logical ways.

[GuyBoden]

Seems a little smart for its own good. Like over the Dm7, if you’re aiming for G, why not just go from the F# to the G?

I see the parallel structure you’re working with there, but I don’t think things work just because there’s a sequence to hold the melody together. The sequence in the melody has to be strong. Or the melodic logic has to be strong—i.e. the notes resolve in super logical ways.

I was trying for a repeated motif, but it didn't quite work over the chords.

Using any note, anywhere, is easy enough to do, but to make it sound good is very difficult, so I agree with Ragman initial conclusion.

I'd probably play something like my initial post instead.

[James W]

I think I’m just upset it was so much noodling and I was expecting to hear some good old time swing music. Then, as it kept going, I was reading a bunch of YouTube comments about how much better he is than Charlie Christian and Wes Montgomery. So frustrating, also so childish of me to hold onto this for like… what, a year?

Sounds like you want Lage to produce something derivative and generic.

You can play anything over anything, if you have big enough ears and conviction in what you're doing, and (importantly) the situation calls for it.
And players might resolve on notes that they're not 'supposed' to... e.g. Miles ending his line on E flat over a B flat major chord on a rhythm changes tune - Oleo, I think.

[pamosmusic]

F#, C and F over Dm G7 and C.

Cut short because my toddler required cheerios

and yes I know it’s too much and sounds contrived which is why you don’t do this sort of stuff on every single change.

[Tal_175]

The dual of this thread's proposition is that you can reharmonize a melody with any set of chords you want as long as the resolution works

[pamosmusic]

The dual of this thread's proposition is that you can reharmonize a melody with any set of chords you want as long as the resolution works

Maybe?

I think you’re kind of saying the opposite thing. The idea here is that notes *dont* need to fit over the chord.

If we’re saying you can play any note over a chord as long as the melody is compelling and has direction, then we would say that you could play any chord in any harmonic position as long as the progression has direction.

That sounds loosey goosey but honestly I think that’s a pretty tall order. Honestly the same thing with the melodic discussion. People dismiss it because it sounds like anything can do anything and who even cares but it’s not easy to do.

[Tal_175]

Maybe?

If you look at a transcription where the melody doesn't match the chords but they resolve in the end, how can you tell if the melody wasn't originally composed for a different chord progression but it was reharmonized in a way to make the melody sound more edgy.

[pamosmusic]

If you look at a transcription where melody doesn't match the chords but they resolve in the end, how can you tell if the melody wasn't originally composed for a different chord progression but it was reharmonized in a way to make the melody sound more edgy.

I misread your post. I think we’re saying the same thing.

[ragman1]

Cheating, Guy :-)

[ragman1]

Ah, sweet

[mr. beaumont]

In ragmans defense, I call foul on making the weird notes pickups.

Ugh, why would I ever start a line on the ONE?

[pamosmusic]

Ugh, why would I ever start a line on the ONE?

Theres always the and of one.

[Bop Head]

Theres always the and of one.

Which starts the pickup of the next one. Was there ever a discussion here about how to blur barlines? I recently read a quote by Dolphy where he said he was preparing resolutions several measures ahead.

[pamosmusic]

Which starts the pickup of the next one.

Okay everyone calm down.

Santa must’ve been passing out copies of Hal Galper for Christmas.

[pamosmusic]

Was there ever a discussion here about how to blur barlines? I recently read a quote by Dolphy where he said he was preparing resolutions several measures ahead.

The way I read the OP, that’s what the whole thread was originally about.

(from the OP)

[…] anticipation, and delayed resolution, and playing over the bar line, soloists begin and end their improvisations on any note that ultimately directs them to agreeable resolutions.

[Bop Head]

The way I read the OP, that’s what the whole thread was originally about.

(from the OP)

Seems I have overlooked that one. So much for reading posts properly LOL.

Dolphy seems to have been extreme in that manner. He was talkin about a guy in a European band accompanying him who said Dolphy was playing wrong on a tune and the answer was that Dolphy was playing more than ten measures ahead IIRC.

[Bop Head]

Okay everyone calm down.

Santa must’ve been passing out copies of Hal Galper for Christmas.

I asked for a Mercedes Benz (cause my friends all drive Porsches) but all I got was a copy of Forward Motion. Must have been dropped by Rudolph by accident because there was "for Peter Amos" written on it.

[GuyBoden]

Ugh, why would I ever start a line on the ONE?

It's aiming for the one, not starting on the one, this is very different than starting on the one.

With your playing ability, no doubt you already know this, so it's not a problem.

Another example of 'aiming for the one' by Miles below, this is from Christian's latest excellent video at 3:28min

[pamosmusic]

It's aiming for the one, not starting on the one, this is very different than starting on the one.

With your playing ability, no doubt you already know this, so it's not a problem.

He was making fun of me, not you.

[mr. beaumont]

It was a joke anyway

[ragman1]