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What makes a musical concept a "thing" in a musical style has two prerequisites:
- A related group of recurring patterns are observed in the common practice of that style.
- That musical concept is the most reasonable abstraction of these recurring patterns. Therefor the abstraction is a useful educational and analytical tool.
So it's a pretty bold claim to say that a concept is a thing in a style. It can't just be supported by a couple of cherry picked examples.
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01-15-2024 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
Yea Tal... I would also say that what makes... it a thing.... is... the "musical concept" is the reference for musical organization of the example. I remember when I was taught to add the #9 to V7 chords when using HM as reference... then eventually moved on the MM. Which didn't make use of HM wrong etc... it just helped make the choice of "musical concept" easier to use. More choices. You didn't need to force choices LOL.
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
*** I don’t usually think of them as altered and harmonic minor, because I usually think about stuff in the terms you described earlier with triads and chords and stuff, but that is the end result
I was just thinking about All Blues and that D7 - Eb7/D7 bit. What would you use over that? Just out of curiosity. It's a very interesting couple of bars.
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Originally Posted by Reg
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
(I've just checked back in my old files for Out Of Nowhere. There are 21 audios and four videos. I just played lydian (Bb mel) over the Eb7 x 2. At one point I tried to be smart with stranger sounds but the Bbm was best).
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Anyway … last four of All Blues. I’d probably start off playing blues stuff.
Miles leans hard on the flat 3 on both chords and plays a the D Eb F Gb Ab Bb pitch collection over both chords. Though oddly enough, rarely the Gb\F# over the D7
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
i could talk about this chord A LOT. You may not want me to get started. Is it melodic minor tho? (Not historically, but certainly in modern jazz practice.)
The Eddie Lang tune uses the whole tone tetrachord. Whole tone scale would be a common choice for this era. But if need to look into it more.
Its not the scale Mozart would have run on it (go on ask me haha.)
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I am invested.
While you’re at it what are some other tunes with this chord?
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Originally Posted by ragman1
so fmaj7-f something or other - C
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Originally Posted by djg
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by ragman1
[ G13 G7sus4 Gsus2 Gm6add9 ] ... C9 played like this...
[ x899xx x101010xx x121212xx x131414xx ] ... x787xx
The thing is, I'm playing rootless chords that don't express some extensions of the harmony I'm really thinking (explored when soloing). Since I'm rootless and indicating what I am thinking rather than writing a lead sheet, notice I don't like or use the "Eb7" chord (Eb7#9 is too expected) - I take that as another version of the D7 as if the D was pedaled through (sounds good with or without the bass catching on).
D7b13#9 DMb13b11sus4 D7b13#9 G13
x91010xx x101111xx x91010xx x899xx
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Quite a lot of 1920s and 30s repertoire. off the top of my head:
Lullaby of the Leave (middle 8)
I’m beginning to see the light
Stompin’ at the Decca (Django)
Loads more…
This is a classic New Orleans one
You quite often see this chord popping up in New Orleans stuff as a sub for #ivo7 in the classic Dixie style turnaround. Listen out for bVI in the tuba. It’s quite Rootsy.
Barry harris taught it as what happens when you put the ascending 4’n’back line on top of the descending one
C-E-F-F#-G
C-Bb-A-Ab-G
(He never used the term augmented sixth when I was in class tho.)
This chord is often seen going to V7 as well of course. In that manifestation it’s very often harmonising some variation of the b5-5 blues melody. This is I think a sign of how it’s different in jazz to classical music where the melody usually goes #4-5 (though this was relaxed in c19 I think.)
…. MUCH more to follow (you will regret this.)
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Originally Posted by pauln
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Re. All Blues, I could post this, I suppose. In 2021 did work out about 7 or 8 different ways of doing it and made a short compilation for myself. It's what it is. Some are better than others. The first one is definitely Dm and Ebm blues. It's very short. Luvly quality :-)
Bass guitar or double bass ? What do you prefer...
Today, 07:11 AM in Other Styles / Instruments