Question about Levine p.85

[dconeill]

Working my way through Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book". On p. 85, in the section on "The Whole-Step/Half-Step Diminished Scale and the Diminished Chord", he shows the F whole-step/half-step scale as figure 3-130. Then, on p. 85 in figure 3-131, if I understand it correctly, he shows the chord built on the second note of that scale and subsequently shows the chord names for the rest of the scale.

He calls the chord G7(b9) and shows the notes from bottom to top: G F Ab B E. I think in terms of chordal tones that's 1 b7 b9 3 13. Is that what he had in mind? Why did he leave out the 5, D? Or is the E a mistake? I expect it's my lack of sophistication that's causing my misunderstanding. Can someone clear this up for me?

I understand that often the 5th is left out of chords because it usually doesn't contribute much harmonically, but I'm surprised in a pedagogical book that he'd make this particular voicing. Again, probably my lack of sophistication.

Thanks.

[Corrected a typo of my own after I first posted this. I wrote b3, should have written 3. Sorry.]

[paulkogut]

It's a fairly common piano voicing, even playable on the guitar (3x3100), and can be moved up chromatically with a bit of a stretch...

When the book came out, there was a somewhat famous review that criticized it for not really being a 'theory', book, but just a bunch of examples of common practice jazz language... It certainly is just that, but I find it a selling point rather than a criticism. It's rare on piano (and impossible on the guitar) to play an extended chord (9th, 11th, 13th) that has ALL the notes that are theoretically available, but Levine's example is certainly one you'll run across on a regular basis

I wrote this tune for a recording and tour with George Mraz, it's based on It Could Happen To You. After a 16 bar intro, the voicing shows up towards the end of the first A section, for G7 going to Cminor

Best wishes for your music!

PK

[rpjazzguitar]

Working my way through Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book". On p. 85, in the section on "The Whole-Step/Half-Step Diminished Scale and the Diminished Chord", he shows the F whole-step/half-step scale as figure 3-130. Then, on p. 85 in figure 3-131, if I understand it correctly, he shows the chord built on the second note of that scale and subsequently shows the chord names for the rest of the scale.

He calls the chord G7(b9) and shows the notes from bottom to top: G F Ab B E. I think in terms of chordal tones that's 1 b7 b9 3 13. Is that what he had in mind? Why did he leave out the 5, D? Or is the E a mistake? I expect it's my lack of sophistication that's causing my misunderstanding. Can someone clear this up for me?

I understand that often the 5th is left out of chords because it usually doesn't contribute much harmonically, but I'm surprised in a pedagogical book that he'd make this particular voicing. Again, probably my lack of sophistication.

Thanks.

[Corrected a typo of my own after I first posted this. I wrote b3, should have written 3. Sorry.]

Second paragraph on page 84 may explain it."b9 is a shorthand symbol for all three alterations found in the scale". He also mentions that there's no avoid note.

I think he could have replaced the E with a D.

[ragman1]

Working my way through Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book". On p. 85, in the section on "The Whole-Step/Half-Step Diminished Scale and the Diminished Chord", he shows the F whole-step/half-step scale as figure 3-130. Then, on p. 85 in figure 3-131, if I understand it correctly, he shows the chord built on the second note of that scale and subsequently shows the chord names for the rest of the scale.

He calls the chord G7(b9) and shows the notes from bottom to top: G F Ab B E. I think in terms of chordal tones that's 1 b7 b9 3 13. Is that what he had in mind? Why did he leave out the 5, D? Or is the E a mistake? I expect it's my lack of sophistication that's causing my misunderstanding. Can someone clear this up for me?

I understand that often the 5th is left out of chords because it usually doesn't contribute much harmonically, but I'm surprised in a pedagogical book that he'd make this particular voicing. Again, probably my lack of sophistication.

It's not a lack of sophistication, it's a lack of familiarity with how guitar chords are played. Levine's book is essentially for piano, not guitar.

A pianist has many more fingers to play with than a guitarist, so he can play more notes. A guitarist has to play chords that contain only the essential notes needed to produce a chord's sound, so some notes have to be left out and/or displayed in a different order.

Any chord that has an extension note above the octave has, technically at least, to contain all the notes below it. That is, a 9 must contain the 7. An 11 chord should contain the 7 and 9 as well. And a 13 chord should contain the 7, 9, 11 and 13. Theoretically, that is.

That might be possible on a piano but not on a guitar so guitar voicings have to be played in a certain way.

For example, a G11 is often played

3x321x

That's G F A C (root, 7, 9, 11). You'll see the chord has no 5th, but that's too bad, it doesn't matter.

A G13 can be played by including the 13(E) on the open string.

3x3210

That's G F A C E (root, 7, 9 11, 13).

Other chords can be made by changing a note or two. A G7b9 can be

3x210x

That's G F Ab B (root, 7, b9, 3).

So you can see that by adding the top E you get G13b9.

3x2100

That's G F Ab B E (root, 7, b9, 3, 13).

Those chords are often used in combination with each other, especially when they resolve to a C6.



And these shapes can be moved up the neck by barring them.

-----------------------------

NB: What matters ultimately is how the chords sound, not really how they're played or what notes they contain or which are left out.

Bear in mind the Jazz Theory Book is an excellent reference but chiefly for pianists, as we said before. Try not to apply chord theory too literally to guitar.

[rintincop]

It's the most common, characteristic, and ideal voicing on piano for G7b9. It's really optimized. It is also most ideal when arranging for a horn section.
The guitar is limited to what is within in a four finger reach.

[ragman1]

The guitar is limited to what is within reach.

Exactly.