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  1. #26

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    At some point you reach a level of proficiency with your personal musical skills... and you work with what you have. I work with professional and some times not so professional musicians all the time. Most musicians can play the shit out of what they know... if your looking for secrets, tricks or the magic chord(s), scale(s), arpeggio or theoretical knowledge etc... I would have to say it's the ability to play what other musicians are hearing, or think their hearing. In order to cover, you need to be aware of a lot of musical approaches, right or wrong. Jazz fundamentals are not that complicated, you need to be aware of complete vertical and horizontal structures of all degrees of the three minors, harmonic maj., basic symmetrical scales... (if you want, pentatonic) and know how blues work and how they influence harmony,(chords). Application, theoretical understanding as well as improvisational skills take much more time... but that's a different discussion.
    Latarski's book looks to be a good start... Best Reg

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Dear Reg,
    As a member of this forum I can say that I'm very happy to hear different kinds of opinions.
    For example the discussion about music is different than the discussion of musicology.
    Some people are talking about their secrets.
    I've been very lucky to meet somebody who is a mezzo soprano. When she's practicing she sings the scales.
    So what i want to say is that i have a classical basic. But by listening what others are saying and how they talk about music (not musicology) is the thing where I'm sure of my own basics.
    This book is something I never gonna buy. I've listened to Latarski on the internet, well he's good, but not my style. the only books i have are about classical musicology from 1875 and 1957(yes, it's written in old style)
    But I think that you're right about what you're saying.

    keep in touch
    this is not personally

  4. #28

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    Hey Krenwin...cool, I don't take much personal. I have a traditional degree from UCLA, have composed tons of period music, many pieces performed. Have made good money composing music for all types of media. Taught at university level yada yada... But I also have a composition degree from Berklee back in the 70's... Which covered traditional music but also put into text most of what is taught about jazz at most school now. You can't understand jazz with traditional music understanding... well you could, but why would you want to. You don't use spieces counterpoint methods to explain twelve-tone or serial music... I guess you could, but why. My point is that jazz has structure just like most music and in order to understand and perform jazz, it helps to have all of the information... I'm also a professional musician... I need to get on road to today's gig... performing jazz. These are great discussions, hope to continue...Best Reg

  5. #29

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    Very clear and open. This is nice phylosophy. It looks like 'open sesamy'.
    I'll be watching you.

    Have a nice gig

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by derek
    No worries. I just see two distinct camps is all. Chord/scale guys, and chord tones guys. Of course, there is cross pollination of them, but I hang on a few other forums, and when questions are asked about how to handle certain chords or progressions, you hear these two distinct choruses.
    Quote Originally Posted by bako
    I am probably/maybe oversensitive about the bash "chord-scale/mode thinking" at every opportunity tendency of some in this forum.
    I was about to start a new thread asking how y'all thought about the older chord arpeggio (chord tone) method of improvising or the Abersole/Coker etc. chord-scale method approaches to improv.

    I notice most jazz books assume the chord-scale method and only tend to focus on bop and post-bop players.

    Am I wrong in assuming there is little instruction for playing pre-bop styles of jazz?

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS
    I was about to start a new thread asking how y'all thought about the older chord arpeggio (chord tone) method of improvising or the Abersole/Coker etc. chord-scale method approaches to improv.

    I notice most jazz books assume the chord-scale method and only tend to focus on bop and post-bop players.

    Am I wrong in assuming there is little instruction for playing pre-bop styles of jazz?
    No you are not. Matt Munisteri has a course I think but no book. And they are books of the era such as Eddie Lang’s (ghost written IIRC) and George Van Eps Guitar Method, but both focus on fretboard harmony.

    I have a theory that people were expected to just pick up jazz.... you’d probably just work it out from the records and gig.

    Although there are a few books on gypsy style guitar. Stephan Wrembel has a good one.

    I also like Randy Vincent’s Guitarists Intro to Jazz which is not a ‘swing’ book but does touch on it, and discussed melodic variation and chord tone soloing before chord scales. A book that has great priorities from a top educator.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    No you are not. Matt Munisteri has a course I think but no book. And they are books of the era such as Eddie Lang’s (ghost written IIRC) and George Van Eps Guitar Method, but both focus on fretboard harmony.

    I have a theory that people were expected to just pick up jazz.... you’d probably just work it out from the records and gig.

    Although there are a few books on gypsy style guitar. Stephan Wrembel has a good one.

    I also like Randy Vincent’s Guitarists Intro to Jazz which is not a ‘swing’ book but does touch on it, and discussed melodic variation and chord tone soloing before chord scales. A book that has great priorities from a top educator.
    Vincent is a great player!

    Yes, there is a good bit of gypsy jazz info around, unlike my youth when there was almost nothing in print, just recordings to listen to and try to imitate.

    I ask because even though I've studied and loved bop and later pre-fusion jazz styles, I also like all the earlier jazz styles; I was lucky to grow up in New Orleans and learn how to play all sorts of jazz styles, since you could have a street trad gig in the afternoon, a big-band reading gig at night, and a bop gig the next day.

    I remember as a young player when I met Danny Barker, and he said "you kids play good guitar, but don't know how to play rhythm".

    Well, I thought I did until he showed me the old way, mostly known as "Freddie Green Style", but also including elements of the other great 30's rhythm guitar players' styles.

    I was also lucky to work with a lot of older players that taught me how to play off the chord changes, not so much off of chord-scales.

    Anyway, thanks for your response.

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS
    Vincent is a great player!

    Yes, there is a good bit of gypsy jazz info around, unlike my youth when there was almost nothing in print, just recordings to listen to and try to imitate.

    I ask because even though I've studied and loved bop and later pre-fusion jazz styles, I also like all the earlier jazz styles; I was lucky to grow up in New Orleans and learn how to play all sorts of jazz styles, since you could have a street trad gig in the afternoon, a big-band reading gig at night, and a bop gig the next day.

    I remember as a young player when I met Danny Barker, and he said "you kids play good guitar, but don't know how to play rhythm".

    Well, I thought I did until he showed me the old way, mostly known as "Freddie Green Style", but also including elements of the other great 30's rhythm guitar players' styles.

    I was also lucky to work with a lot of older players that taught me how to play off the chord changes, not so much off of chord-scales.

    Anyway, thanks for your response.
    Yeah I used to do 200 shows a year of that stuff usually for dancers. Often gigs were just rhythm guitar. I didn't have to much contact with anyone from back in the day, sadly, they may well have said I was doing it all wrong haha.

    I think playing swing and earlier styles is a great foundation for playing bop. I don't think bop really made any sense to me before I did that.

    A real frustration is how much players who haven't checked out earlier jazz stereotype it. Sometimes I think Louis was playing all the bebop notes in 1928.