Frank Vignola 251's

[d115]

Hi all.
I'm not a pro but always looking to improve.
I recently bought Frank Vignola 's Truefire's "30 juicy 251 subs."
Although I hate the word juicy, I love the course contents. I understand what a 251 is and what the chords would be but I do have a question for the community.....
What is your thought process on memorizing the substitutions when the root is not in the bass for the ii, or it is rootless?
Once I find the ii, the V and I fall into place by positional reference.

[pauln]

What is your thought process on memorizing the substitutions when the root is not in the bass for the ii, or it is rootless?
Once I find the ii, the V and I fall into place by positional reference.

The process you want is internalization. As you notice, in music memorizing things typically means memorizing relationships between proxies for the sound of things, so you try to memorize words, names, numerals, positions, fingerings, and their relationships. When you internalize something the things you are grasping are much more like the objects you are wanting to remember and manipulate. In music, the internalization is much more about objects whose main attribute is "how it sounds", much less about the words, names, numbers, etc.

Recognizing the root of a chord (when the chord is rootless) and similar abilities are examples of the advantages of going beyond memorization and extending into internalization. You will know when internalization is happening when both the apparent level of effort of memorization decreases, the speed of recognition and execution increases, and the retention of things learned lasts longer, all these pretty dramatically.

You can't force yourself into internalization; it is a pending gift, an awakening, a version upgrade... really an emergent spontaneous reorganization of how you grasp things, so all you can do is just keep pressing with study preparing for it until it comes.

[d115]

Thank you.
There is no substitute for time on the instrument.

[vintagelove]

Hi all.
I'm not a pro but always looking to improve.
I recently bought Frank Vignola 's Truefire's "30 juicy 251 subs."
Although I hate the word juicy, I love the course contents. I understand what a 251 is and what the chords would be but I do have a question for the community.....
What is your thought process on memorizing the substitutions when the root is not in the bass for the ii, or it is rootless?
Once I find the ii, the V and I fall into place by positional reference.

This sounds obvious, but literally visualize the root. Think of where the new grip is compared to one you're comfortable, and also move from from a voicing you're comfortable with, to the new voicing.

[StringNavigator]

...I recently bought Frank Vignola 's Truefire's "30 juicy 251 subs."...What is your thought process on memorizing the substitutions when the root is not in the bass for the ii, or it is rootless?...

There are many possible substitution schemes for a 2m7: diatonic extensions, chromatic alterations, inversions, changing string-sets, line cliches, upper structure, tritone or o7 subs, V7, Drop-2, 3, and 2-4...

If you know your grips well in the Dominant-Tonic cadence, you can treat the 2m7 simply as a kind of suspension of the V7. Any 2m7-57 is really just a dressed up 57. I think Joe Pass made that assertion somewhere in a seminar. You can throw out all the 2m7's from the Real Book and the changes still function without it. They sound nice, though:
2m7, 2m79, 2m7-5, 2m711, 5#M7... You can play 2m7-2b7b5-1M7 or a saucier 2m7-57b5-1M7. You can sub them all depending on the harmony. I think 2m7-57 started in Latin music, but that's just an opinion. It can make for a very rhythmic vamp.

I've found 32 possible chords by means of o7 principles, alone, heavily dependent upon the harmonic situation. If you exercise/drill them your ear will let you know how outside you want to go. Practice the ones you like in the keys you'll most probably play in. The trick is to be able to transpose on the fly. Takes practice. Learn the subs in your singer's key range for a start.

If you're looking to keep harmonic movement by playing four chords per bar, the above subs will get you there. Beats playing the same chord 4 or 8 times. Begin by learning the four triads in all inversions on strings 123 & 234. Move them up the neck diatonically on the same string-set, then start crossing from strings 234 to 123 at varying Scale Degrees. These three note triad shapes often appear in complex chords.

I personally am not a believer in the improvisation mystique. If anyone tells about mysterious forces of magical talent that some people possess who can easily supersede Mozart or Bach by their mere breathing on a guitar, it's time for you to go home and practice before you start to believe them.

Every famous, successful improvisor practiced and honed everything in their trick-bag until it became second nature. Practice makes perfect. Practice makes improv possible. Bach & Mozart could improvise because they practiced the stuff since childhood. Charlie Parker practiced all the patterns until he could improvise effortlessly. It's not magic.

Practice IS the stuff of improv. We sound the way we practice. Knowing the many substitution theories won't get you there until you've practiced them to death. Begin with the ones you like to hear because they alone will take a year to get down to the point where you can improvise with them.

Personally, I like using these often:
4M6 for 2m7, [upper structure]
2m6 for 57, [US common tones]

7m7b5 for V7 [US common tones]
(The 7m7b5 is actually an Upper Structure of V79 without the root.)
(Counting in thirds: CEGBDFACE... In the key of C, G79 is GBDFA, G79NR is BDFA, and 7m7b5 is BDFA.)

1M7-1M6 for 1M7-6m7, [inversion]
3m7-5 for 179, [upper structure]
2b13 for 57, [tritone]
7b7 for 57, [diminished principles (may be outside, but the Beatles like it much.]
1M/3 for 1M, [inversion (1M/3-3bo7-2m7-2b7b5-1M7]
57/5 for 57, [inversion]
5#m7-2b7-1M7 [tritone sub with its own 2m7 (really shakes things up, beboppers!)]

Any V7 = V#o7 [diminished principles][In fact, any o7 chord grip on the guitar becomes a Dom7 if you lower any note of the o7 chord a half-step. The derived Dom7 takes the name of that flattened note. To prove it, take the old xx3434. From this o7 grip you get the top four strings of the D7 shape, G7 shape, C7 shape, and E7 shape. This is the real origin of CAGED! It gets worse when you sharpen any o7 chord tone by a half-step as it becomes a m7b5! You get four dom7th grips and four half-diminished grips from every dim7 grip you can muster! Now, since you can replace any o7 with three other o7's, you can triple the aforementioned.]

2m711-2b79-1M, tritone
4M79-5713-6m79, upper structure and diatonic common tone sub
3m711/67b9-2m711/57b9-1M79
37#5-679-27#5-579
7m7b5-7o7-6m7, [7m7b5=2m7 & V7=V#o7=7o7 by diminished principles, 6m7 is a diatonic sub]





Back in 1980 in Vancouver I came across the diminished principles substitutions from a book by David Eastlee, Chord Connections 1978 R.E.H.. Great book for grippers. I don't know if the newer editions cover the same material. I posted this for beginners only to save them some time on their journey. (Experienced guitarists are too competitive to talk with, now. Or they want you to buy lessons...)

If this is all very confusing, then good! Now you know what to seek out in guitar books. (Jazz Guitar Forum in action! The lost helping the lost!)

I don't replace the chord entirely. I often treat them as one would an extension to complete the bar. To increase harmonic tempo and keep it moving. Your personal treatment of four-to-the-bar accompaniment will help create your signature sound. They come with practice. Then after some months you can use them at will. And then you will recognise them in the chart you are reading.

You can experiment with all of them to find the ones you like and practice their use and application. You will remember them once they get into your fingers. CAGED is huge for guitarists. Learn to connect all the shapes. Mix and Match. Tonic-Dominant, Dominant-Tonic, 2m7-57, 1M7-1M6-2m7-57, ... all the changes you can think of. The only people who dis CAGED are scale tone players looking for speed fingerings. CAGED is for accompaniment chording and fill-ins or soloing withing the shapes. CAGED is how the guitar (and bass) works.

Perhaps if you posted an example with voicings. It would make things clear and people can better respond to something existent.

"I can't believe there's folks out there charging good money for less.", Bernie Madoff


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[d115]

Many thanks for the comments!