The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
  1. #1

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    I need help on composing ideas for 2 5 1 progressions..
    Really i don't understand how some standarads have more than just a 2 5 1, and h9ow they have maybe a 5 1 or 1 5 progression with it while using chord substitutions such as a flat5 or 9 chord..

    If there is any theory that could help mainly in the 251 progression while using maybe another progression with it really confuses me... so, I need some help...

    Thank You

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  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzguitar2516
    I need help on composing ideas for 2 5 1 progressions..
    Really i don't understand how some standarads have more than just a 2 5 1, and h9ow they have maybe a 5 1 or 1 5 progression with it while using chord substitutions such as a flat5 or 9 chord..

    If there is any theory that could help mainly in the 251 progression while using maybe another progression with it really confuses me... so, I need some help...

    Thank You
    Im not sure if I fully understand the question, but I think you may be talking about secondary ii-V-Is within the key?

    So here’s an example

    F | Em7b5 A7 | Dm7 G7 | Cm7 F7 |
    Bb | Am7 D7 | Dm7 G7 | Gm7 C7 |

    that sort of thing?

    First thing to know about the ii chord is that it is merely a suspension of the V chord, and so the two go together as a unit. As you can appreciate from the above the ii V does not always move clearly to a I.

    So for my flavour of doing things (Barry Harris) I like to remove the ii’s

    F | A7 | Dm | F7
    Bb | D7 | G7 | C7

    I also removed the G7 in bar 3 which I see as a passing chord.

    So we end up with an eight bar progression ending on the V, or a half cadence which is typical of the first A section of an AABA tune. The second A usually ends on the I chord

    Being predominantly in F progression briefly tonicises closely related keys Dm (relative minor) and Bb (subdominant) through the use of secondary dominant chords, before using a short chain of secondary dominants in a cycle of fourths to return to the V of the main key.
    F
    A7–>Dm
    F7–>Bb
    D7–>G7–>C7

    It doesn’t really change key but does have brief dalliances with other sub keys if that makes sense.

    don’t know if that helps.

  4. #3

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    I think there are always two ways.

    1. Strum the chords and scat sing. When you get a melody you like in your singing, figure out how to play it on the guitar.

    2. Apply one or another of a large number of devices derived from theory to navigate the changes.

    When you get bored with approach 1, think about nibbling a bit of approach 2. Vice Versa too.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzguitar2516
    I need help on composing ideas for 2 5 1 progressions..
    Really i don't understand how some standarads have more than just a 2 5 1, and h9ow they have maybe a 5 1 or 1 5 progression with it while using chord substitutions such as a flat5 or 9 chord..

    If there is any theory that could help mainly in the 251 progression while using maybe another progression with it really confuses me... so, I need some help...

    Thank You
    You started another thread some time ago. This one:

    Advanced Guitar Theory

    A lot of people tried to help you but you'd vanished. Since most of the questions were nonsense both musically and in English it was eventually concluded you were just fooling around.

    So why not this one too?