The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1
    Probably a dumb question about inversions but am I allowed to play inversions even if the chart doesn't specify a slash chord?

    And I realize that I'm "allowed" to do anything I want. But what I mean is, if is sit down with a trio or go to a jazz jam and I play Am7 with a C in the root and DMaj7 with C# in the root, will I be interfering with the bass player or doing something that would be looked down upon by the other members of the rhythm section, etc. I would guess, that it is okay, but in that case, I'm not sure why some chord are given with slash notation if I always have the option of using inversions.

    I would also guess that if I'm doing chord melody for solo guitar, then the answer really is that I can do whatever I want as long as it sounds the way I want it to? In that case i'm guessing inversions and different chord structures are chosen for voice leading and bass-melody reasons?

    Again, sorry if this is a basic question. I'm trying to get a better understanding of some of the basics.

    A related question: Is it a good idea, while learning chord shapes, to play through standards using the different inversions. For example, I've been really into "Someday My Prince Will Come" lately. Would it be beneficial to play through the tune using only drop-2 root chords, then only drop-3 root chords, then only drop-2 first inversion chords, etc... The initial question about inversions came about while playing through the tune using only root position chords and it got me wondering how to think about inversions.

    Thanks

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  3. #2

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    Inversions are always cool, just be aware of low notes...in general...if there's a bass player, stay off their turf.

    4 note chords are big.

    How much you play will always depend on the environment. And it's easy to leave things out if needed.

  4. #3

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    If there's a bassist, you can do whatever you want with inversions because the bassist will be defining the bass note. Remember, the bassist doesn't always play the root either does he? So the the whole ensemble will always be playing inversions. To comp well, (or play solo) you're going to want to be able to run inversions up the neck. The thing to remember is the particular voicing does have a certain sound. So try to be aware of the effect of your part only, whether it's something you want to avoid or a sound you want to purposely do.

  5. #4

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    It's an excellent question. Like a lot of things in jazz there isn't one answer.

    Generally speaking, you want to stay out of the way of the bassist. The bass extends an octave lower than the guitar and the bassist will spend most of his time in that octave or the one above it. So, roughly speaking, you may be in his range if you're playing below E below middle C (or so), which is the second fret on the D string. It can certainly be done, but it's something to consider if you're playing notes in that range.

    As far as playing inversions I guess you mean other than the root inversion. You'd be hard pressed to avoid other inversions. 1 3 5 7 etc isn't so easy to finger on the guitar. And, you don't want to anyway.

    There's a lot more to say but it's too much for a post. I recently linked to a youtube video of Pasquale Grasso playing behind Samara Joy. Check out what he does when she's singing. It's a terrific example of what comping can be. He's playing chords in a melodic way (meaning little melodies in the highest note of the chord) and not just the one in the chart. You need inversions and substitutions to do that.

    Convince yourself. Get a backing track for a tune you know and try it every which way.

  6. #5

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    It's all about the sound of music. Any chord can be picked in a number of different voicings, where some subjectively will be a better choice than others. But this fact is not suggesting that there are no guidelines. If there were no "rules" we wouldn't be able to make music together with other people and we wouldn't be able to reproduce the sound of a written tune. An "interpretation" is possible only when we got access to the score, a recording or a "trade". A deliberate chord substitution suggests that the player knows what he's doing, in other case you just played the wrong chord.

    Sometimes an inversion is nothing but a voicing, meaning it's not even a substitution, just a voicing of a chord written in the chart. You picked that voicing because you liked it and it didn't alter the sound of the progression to any significant degree.

    But there are other situations where you have to play a particular voicing not to confuse your band mates and ruin the listening experience. When there's a slash chord in the chart it means this is considered important for the sound of the progression (referring to a certain recording, tradition or original score). It's not only a question of the bass note, but also how the chord sounds together with the melody, which often is about the top note. In those situations the slash chord is not just a voicing but a chord in its own right, having its own functional implication on the progression.

    -How do we know when a certain voicing is important? Well, first of all, reading a chord chart of a song we've never heard before won't tell us everything there's to know. Reading the head (the melody) will give us some more information, but it may not be enough. Agreeing on a certain recording to serve as the basis for the interpretation is probably the safest bet.

    Basic guidelines: When playing chords; try to keep them connected by a pedal tone (one tone stays unchanged) or by voice leading (a melodic line moving with the chords). Move chords either chromatically or through a cycle; the chord voicings you use are key.

  7. #6

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    Root in the bass will always give you stability, inversions can be the key first step to creating a sense of movement. As long as the sense of that chord is conveyed, in whatever inversion or voicing you use, the harmony is conveyed.
    Great question and the fact that you asked it shows you have what it takes to become a good player: Curiousity about options. Try different inversions and voicings out. Find chord combinations, two or three, when the chart calls for one. Use your ear and play by it. A world of harmony will open up to you.
    Have fun!

  8. #7

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    I'm guessing this question is about passing chords or creating chordal movements. With chords, there are resting sounds and moving sounds. A third inversion major 7 chord does not convey the harmonic information very clearly, so it's not a typical resting sound voicing.

    When it comes to the "moving sounds", what the ear catches is the top note as the melody note and the "movement" of the middle voices and the bass voice. So the "moving sounds" do not need to convey the harmonic information. You can basically use anything as the "moving sound" as long as the voice leading works. If you're moving in steps, diatonic passing chords or diminished passing chords work well as moving sounds. If you're moving in skips, then then inversions work well (among other things). For half steps, parallel motion is common (but any mostly half-step voice movement can work).

    For more in-place moving sounds, (ie when the voices move in different directions and some stay the same) as opposed to strictly ascending or descending motions, substitutions and extensions work well. Also again, anything goes as moving sounds as long as the voice leading works.

    The first and second inversions are closer to the sound of the root version. The first inversion is very similar to using a functional substitution (chords build from the 3rd).The second inversions are practically the root inversions.

  9. #8

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    If playing hybrid or fingerstyle, you can also emphasize any note in a chord to open up a new world of possibilities. Just a hint of that B below C E (& G if there’s room) with C being clearly loudest can sound great, when striking all 4 equally might be much too heavy. It’s harder to strike the notes of a chord of any size with different force playing with a pick, but you can usually alter the lowest or highest.

  10. #9

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    In jazz and pop music inversion often is just rotating of the voices around, it is not necessarily that the lowest note has clear 'bass function' as in classical music where the lowest note can stand apart from other voices by octave or two and rules of voice position.

    Another point is guitar and its tone. In my opinion on guitar it is easier to make chord tones blend together rather than separate one particular bass note (unless you use a texture to separate it).

    In my opinion in jazz guitar in a band all this makes inversion frist of all about a change of melodic voice, or even just a variation of a chord as a function.
    Even when playing alone one can make an inversion sound more or less like a general 'chord sound' without noticeable bass move.

    And and also thatnks to the fact that guitar sounds quite different in different position on the neck it opens also quite opposite possibility actually (5x356x (F/A) sounds very different tonally than 10x81011x (Bb/D), so probably if I transpose the tune with the same voicings pattern it would have very different character.
    On piano you would not notice it that much probably - it is just a 4th high, does not make a big difference.

    and also inversions of 4 note chords (7th, 6 and so on) they often lose initial function depending on the context and can be interpreted like another chord functionally. Imho it does not work so easily on piano because its tone is much more homogenous overall.

    As I say in jazz Any chord as voicing can be Any chord as function (by function I mean its harmonic role, not necessarilly classical T,S,D, function).

    So in a group the priority is how well it mixes up with the other instruments, from my ecperiece you just learn from practice, try to hear what is going on...

    I like doing Am7 - D7 - Gma7 like 8x798x to 8x777x 7x577x ... why not... it is just important how much the bass note stands out in a mix and if the bass does walking bass up the neck and you are in the same octave there can a risk of clashes.. but forst of all yu can hear the context to avoid it, second it is just a moment and you have a chance to move away...

    and also the direction is more important than particual pitch imho - if what you play has strong direction to some destination then usually the clashes and dissonances are not that audible.

    Pete Bernstein sometimes plays all kind of stuff but not the main chord or its inversions and it is ok... because it is always heading somewhere on forward to the next point (and then he ofte avoids that point and switches to anothe destination)

    And rhythm pattern is also important... where you play it...

    I am not that experienced as Christian or nevershouldhavesoldit or mr.beaumont in group playing... but that is what I felt through my playing with others and I can formulate it this way (by the way I am not sure I can do it properly myself next time - one should play regularly to get stable chops in a group and be able to quickly react to new enviroment(((

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by briandavidyork
    Probably a dumb question about inversions but am I allowed to play inversions even if the chart doesn't specify a slash chord?

    And I realize that I'm "allowed" to do anything I want. But what I mean is, if is sit down with a trio or go to a jazz jam and I play Am7 with a C in the root and DMaj7 with C# in the root, will I be interfering with the bass player or doing something that would be looked down upon by the other members of the rhythm section, etc. I would guess, that it is okay, but in that case, I'm not sure why some chord are given with slash notation if I always have the option of using inversions.

    I would also guess that if I'm doing chord melody for solo guitar, then the answer really is that I can do whatever I want as long as it sounds the way I want it to? In that case i'm guessing inversions and different chord structures are chosen for voice leading and bass-melody reasons?

    Again, sorry if this is a basic question. I'm trying to get a better understanding of some of the basics.

    A related question: Is it a good idea, while learning chord shapes, to play through standards using the different inversions. For example, I've been really into "Someday My Prince Will Come" lately. Would it be beneficial to play through the tune using only drop-2 root chords, then only drop-3 root chords, then only drop-2 first inversion chords, etc... The initial question about inversions came about while playing through the tune using only root position chords and it got me wondering how to think about inversions.

    Thanks
    If there’s a bass player you can do what you like with inversions provided you are aware of register. Sometimes you may wish to reinforce the bass, but often the main thing is to stay out the way. Inverted or rootless voicings are often desirable in this context, depending on style. Reharmonisation cna range from uncontroversial (chromatic approaches and tritone subs) through to things you really need to tell the other players (side slips, #4 subs and giant steps cycles etc.)

    if there’s not a bass… hmmm. No it’s not a free for all. But you do have freedom. If that makes a lick of sense.

    Not all inversions are interchangeable. Dominant chords invert well, major sevenths less well for instance. Second inversion majors like Bb/F often serve a structural role in cadences (such as Eb Eo7 Bb/F F7 Bb)

    simplest way to put it, my first duty is to the melody, but my second duty is to the bassline. Some chords really have to be in root position - important cadences generally (yes even in jazz, Peter Bernstein is very particular about this for example) like the last ii V I in a section.

    Beyond that I think you can do what you like provided there’s a strong bassline. Strong basslines are often stepwise and use leaps sparingly. Schoenberg used to refer to the bass as ‘the second melody’ which I always liked

    Someday has a really strong bassline as it is though, so start with that before you start inventing your own.

    I would try your inversion exercise to master the grips and then mix it up. You might want to check out some voice leading exercises too. I can suggest if that interests.

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    I would try your inversion exercise to master the grips and then mix it up. You might want to check out some voice leading exercises too. I can suggest if that interests.
    Yes, please. I watched a few youtube videos a while back about Schillinger cycles on the guitar, and that looked really cool, but like many things I never actually got around to actually doing them. But I would be interested in hearing about some voice leading exercises. Thanks.

  13. #12

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    Huge thread on Voice Leading right here in this forum.

  14. #13

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    Inversions are normal in jazz. However, it depends on who you play with... it helps if you know the bassist's style on different forms (straight, Latin, Bossa...) Listen for when they bounce roots, walk, move chromatically, tri-tones... their habits with regard to songs and parts of songs.

    It is almost traditional that the bass takes a position from which they may view the pianist's left hand so as not to cloud up the low end, but if they are in trouble struggling to figure out or recall a tune you can let them see your finger board which may rescue them much faster. Just do it in a cool way that doesn't alert everyone else that something is going on. I've played with bassists that could make no sense of my chord fingering because I play rootless and mostly made up; so for the head I might finger rooted chords even if I don't play the root if I sense a hint would help.