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Kong's simple test of is a musician any good.... If a dude sat down and played in a bar or cafe, would he enjoy listening or would he go home to eat some bananas.
Originally Posted by ragman1
This would keep me in the bar to buy another drink. I like you ragman, you cut out bullshit and play nice to back it up!
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01-21-2023 12:54 PM
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'kongtime'
(Apologies for the poor phone next to amp and TV sound quality)
Link is good but displays wierd.
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Great ! Originally Posted by KingKong
These are two "old" versions.
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Not what I meant. it makes a difference, massive difference to the effect of the song, which chords you use. That’s how you dress up the song. Whether it’s going out in a 30s formal wear, a sharp 50’s suit or an 80s casual sportswear ensemble. Originally Posted by ragman1
im saying soloing wise, people get hung up on the chords. This type of tune - play a strong melody… minor melodies can and do use all the notes of the different minor scales.
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Ah, sorry. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Certainly does.it makes a difference, massive difference to the effect of the song, which chords you use.
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Yes, even shared it with my mates on WhatsApp! Originally Posted by ragman1
KingKong -
Yes, but did you like the sheep?
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Surely this has to be the best version of summertime out there, although I'm sure if Armstrong were alive today he'd be quaking in his boots at mine and Ragman's versions....
What's all this talk of the first chord being Aminor6th or what ever, it's A flaming minor 7th. Got no time for these pretentious fancy chords, hard enough job learning the basic ones.
Anyway, original poster, please don't be put off by this thread, learn summertime, minor key concept will become clear. The tune has chords with notes in from both the A natural and harmonic minor, it works. There is only a minor difference between them.
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Am7 is the weak milky tea of chords
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Actually, I'm starting to see (or hear) this myself tbf, just bear in mind where I'm up to with this jazz escapade, keeping it simple at the moment as I try to put it all together. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
What would you say are the next 'pretentious' minor chords to start playing with, I'm guessing A flaming minor 6th and 9th?
I'm working on getting me arpeggios and 7th chords down in all of the 5 positions on the neck at the moment, but yeh spicing up the chords ought to be looked at at some point in the future.
Chords need to be Guinness, not milky tea!
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I think I’d rather Am over Am7 for a tonic minor; don’t have to add shit to it if you don’t want to. Straight minor is a unique sound.
I also like Amadd9 a lot.
Extended m7 is ok m9, m11 maybe. Depends what the song is doing and what sound I want.
Original is Am6 Bm6 vamp. Pretty moody.
m(maj7) is a bit strong for a lot of applications. Am6/9 is a nice dissonant, strident sound. Tend to use it more for solos I think?
Otoh Am7 - it’s that C triad. Thins out the minor-ness. Which may be what you want…
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Looking back, I played solely 'cowboy', barre and dominant 7 chords for nigh on 25 years before even playing my first Aminor7th chord so just doing that was a revelation to me at the time. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
So here's the problem:
Pianoman, play AM9 instead of AM7 please?
No problem I'll just put an extra finger down on the keys.
Guitarman, do the same.....
Ok, my go to Am7 chord is xx5555 I'll just sick a finger on the B (xx5557).
Hang on, I've lost the A, it's Cmaj7, i've got to completely move everything just to get the right notes in......
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You might find that A on your open 5th string; or if you don't like open strings then on the 6th string, fifth fret. Originally Posted by KingKong
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Needs to be movable so open string is no good, also if I do the A on the 6th string, loses the 9. Originally Posted by pcjazz
Or could you get away with playing the Cmaj7th, if u were playing with a bass or piano player, who would provide the all important missing A?
Anyway, not dissing these fancy chords but I've got bigger fish to fry at the moment, well with the way and order I've decided to go about things that is.
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That's why there is hybrid picking. Originally Posted by KingKong
In fact, you don't even need hybrid picking to play A min9 on the 5th fret.
Don't bar with one finger like a cowboy chord player. Use fingers 2, 3 and 4.
2 does the bass, 3 bars the middle 3 strings, 4 does the 9th.Last edited by Tal_175; 01-22-2023 at 08:27 AM.
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Use your thumb over the edge of the neck to get A on the 6th string, (mute the 5th string with edge of the index finger), then it’s moveable, and playable with a pick.
Pretty standard rock technique too (for an Am7 chord), at least that’s what I always did.
Can be used for lots of other jazz voicings too, where root on 6th is required.
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Rofl
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If you can't get your thumb over then it's possible the 'Cmaj7' might not sound like one in context. It depends what comes before and after. Originally Posted by KingKong
But this is getting to be a real mess here. You say the best version is the Louis Armstrong/Ella Fitzgerald vid. But then you say
But it isn't. The Armstrong vid is in Bm and the first chord is without any doubt at all a Bm6. Play over it and see.What's all this talk of the first chord being Aminor6th or what ever, it's A flaming minor 7th
And in fact an Am6 (5x455x) is much easier to play than the Am7 where you stick your 3rd finger across (5x555x). Easier to play and easier to move.
And now you're talking about an Am9... Is that for improvising purposes? Because the tune never has a B over the Am.
So unless I'm missing something I'm completely lost.
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Don't worry youve missed nothing of important. Thread got diverted and Kong left his brain somewhere whilst trying to figure out how to play an Am9. Originally Posted by ragman1
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Like I said, you might not need to play any more than your 'Cmaj7' sound. In fact, it can sound jazzier and better.
Here are two little bits. I'm playing each one twice. The first time I'm playing them with bass notes and the 5x555x shape but the second I'm using the xx5557. But the ear doesn't hear a Cmaj7, it hears the Am9.
CM7 - Am7- Dm7 - G7
CM7 - G7/G#o - Am7 - G7
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My friends, I've got the feeling you're into politics or administration, you take time to understand.
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I'll give this a listen when time allows, but I've just recalled a TV thing from a while back where Sting was pontificating about how he could change the chord his band was playing with his bass guitar. This is kind of the same conversation. Originally Posted by ragman1
Easy then, I'll just play an easy 2 finger c maj 7th, get me old mate Stingy in on bass and the Am9 is there no worries.
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That's it, give it the two fingers :-)
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Sorry forgot to compliment you on this, very saxy! Originally Posted by Lionelsax
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Hi 2-5Guy
I'm enjoying reading this thread that you've started.
You might like to take a look at Dan Greenblatt's book, Minor is Major (Sher Music Co., 2013), which discusses the minor scales in a jazz context. It's a rare extended study of the harmonic and melodic minors (and more) as used by well-known jazz composers and improvisors.
This book would merit its own separate thread, somewhere on the forum, to discuss it in detail: it's thought-provoking reading, even if you then find yourself disagreeing with some of its assertions.
The Sher Music website offers some sample pages, as pdfs, here:
www.shermusic.com/1883217776.php
All the best
Mick W
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Oh, you don't have to. Originally Posted by KingKong
For your tunes in minor keys, if you've got 4 bars of the same minor chord and if you think it like a m7 the best is to play quartal. It's easy, it's modern, nobody will blame you.
This is a tune I failed, the intro is based on quartal chords.
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