Minor Keys

**ragman1** · 01-20-2023, 03:44 PM

2-5Guy -

What is it you're finding difficult, the chords or playing over them? Or both?

And do you read music at all?

**Lionelsax** · 01-20-2023, 04:58 PM

You will understand if you want to.

In D minor

D- A7/E D-/F G-6 A G/B A7/C# D- A-/C E-7b5/Bb A A/G D-/F A7/E D-

Some already know what it's about.

I'm sorry for the jazzy translation.

I couldn't really remember it, it's easier when it's written in another way.

I learnt to play the keyboard with that thing.

**2-5Guy** · 01-20-2023, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by ragman1

2-5Guy -

What is it you're finding difficult, the chords or playing over them? Or both?

And do you read music at all?

It was just a matter of contextual semantics. I'm good now.
Thanks

**KingKong** · 01-20-2023, 06:52 PM

I don't think one should try too hard to tie a jazz tune down to being all in a particular key, or all in a particular scale.

Good old autum leaves , in Gminor for arguments sake.

Melody uses notes of G natural minor.
Has the D7 chord in where the 3rd is from G harmonic minor and NOT in G natural minor.
Solo over the chords using G natural minor, switch to G harmonic when the D7 chord comes in.
Sounds perfectly fine.

**ragman1** · 01-20-2023, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by 2-5Guy

It was just a matter of contextual semantics. I'm good now.
Thanks

I don't believe you, but it doesn't matter :-)

**2-5Guy** · 01-20-2023, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by ragman1

I don't believe you, but it doesn't matter :-)

Seriously, it was.
What I was trying to say in my original post was that if someone says, for example, "I'm going to play a progression in Cm", to me that really means nothing. The way MY mind works is that my interpretation/s may be different than what the person saying it is. For me it might mean Cm Harmonic, C Dorian, C Phrygian, C Aeolian, etc.
Just saying Cm (and again, for me) is not enough information. That's why I asked if there is a universal assumption that I'm not aware of.

That's all. Really.
Then someone else said some of those examples I cited were Scales and not keys. (Even though the modes are rooted in keys) Fair enough.
So yes, it was a matter of semantics.

**KingKong** · 01-20-2023, 08:25 PM

I think someone should write him a test.

**2-5Guy** · 01-20-2023, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by KingKong

I think someone should write him a test.

No.
I have a hard enough time just trying to get through life.

**ragman1** · 01-21-2023, 06:50 AM

2-5Guy -

I was going to leave this for obvious reasons but I'm not sure it's finished. I'm not arguing, by the way, I'm explaining.

Contextual semantics means the meaning of certain words within a certain context, in this case music terminology. But you seem to think it's all a matter of opinion. That's why you talk about what things mean 'to you' as opposed to someone else.

But it's not about your meaning as opposed to someone elses' meaning, it's about specific meanings that can be found in any musical dictionary or factual website. If you are confused about the meanings or haven't taken the trouble to look things up that's not our fault.

I agree that the terms scale and key can be confusing unless they're understood. And your teacher was right in saying it all starts with the major scale. If we take the C major scale as a starting point then a piece of music can be written using the notes of that scale. And that piece can be said to be in the key of C major, the note C being the root or basic pitch to which the other notes are related and from which they flow.

The notes of the major scale can then be altered in a specific way to produce the minor scales. A piece of music written with one of those scales is said to be in that key. So a piece written in C minor would use notes from the C minor scale with C being the root.

At this point you would ask 'Which minor scale?', because there are apparently three of them, and you'd be right. But a study of the subject would tell you that minor music is virtually always written with the harmonic minor. That's because the other two aren't really useful for pleasing tunes and compositions. They can be used to embellish the harmonic concept but rarely, if ever, as a basis.

So you're really asking questions about very basic music theory. It needs studying. Above all, it needs taking out of the conceptual/academic realm and understood in relation to actual music.

You need to go back to square one and gen up on the basics. Then we can have a fruitful discussion about it. If that's actually what you want, of course, I don't know.

**KingKong** · 01-21-2023, 07:22 AM

The dude says he hasn't even done a minor tune yet.
I'd advise doing that, e.g. summerime is pretty simple with a melody you should already know. Make it sound nice soloing using natural or harmonic minor, it really doesn't matter.

**Christian Miller** · 01-21-2023, 07:42 AM

Indeed. Or mix it up.

To understand the jazz minor sound I’d recommend Charlie Christian actually. His solos on I Found a New Baby and Topsy are both in a minor key and showcase how to use minor scales and arpeggios effectively.

**ragman1** · 01-21-2023, 08:05 AM

As far as I can see he hasn't even got that far, it looks like it's just a lot of confusing not-properly-assimilated ideas. And ideas without any real basis always cause confusion.

**ragman1** · 01-21-2023, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by KingKong

The dude says he hasn't even done a minor tune yet.
I'd advise doing that, e.g. summerime is pretty simple with a melody you should already know. Make it sound nice soloing using natural or harmonic minor, it really doesn't matter.

Summertime starts on a m6. Not natural or harmonic, unfortunately, although they come later in the tune. Autumn Leaves might be better, half major, half harmonic minor. But he needs to get the absolute basics down first.

The trouble with coming here is that he's wandered into a Nuclear Physics Convention and is asking the professors what an atom is, or a molecule. They'll smile sweetly and eventually call security :-)

**Lionelsax** · 01-21-2023, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by ragman1

Summertime starts on a m6.

Yes, on Bm6 !

**Christian Miller** · 01-21-2023, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Lionelsax

Yes, on Bm6 !

Doesnt matter

**Lionelsax** · 01-21-2023, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Christian Miller

Doesnt matter

I personally prefer Dm11 or quartal.

**ragman1** · 01-21-2023, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Lionelsax

Yes, on Bm6 !

Not in A minor. It starts on Am6 and many versions have it going to a plain E7. But many people play E9. And some people just move the Am6 up to play Bm6. Not that it makes much difference, as Christian said.

**Lionelsax** · 01-21-2023, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by ragman1

Not in A minor. It starts on Am6 and many versions have it going to a plain E7. But many people play E9. And some people just move the Am6 up to play Bm6. Not that it makes much difference, as Christian said.

Rubbish ! You need some culture !