Do you Barry Harris School guitarists do this chordal movement?

[rintincop]

Do guitarists who train within the Barry Harris system also adapt these pianistic chord movements that Barry taught?

[Bop Head]

I recently figured out the modulation to a major key a minor third above using these seventh-(diatonic sixth)-(chromatic below sixth)-(diatonic sixth) embellishments but with simple shell chords (guitar shells bottom to top: tonic + third + seventh resp. tonic + seventh + thirds) w/o doubling voices.

e.g. from C major to Eb major, (basic) voicings tonic + seventh + third)

C: C – (B -> A -> G# –> A) – E

D–7: D – (C -> B -> A# –> B) – F

E–7: E – (D -> C –> B –> C) – G

and now move to F–7 as II of Eb major

F–7: F – (Eb -> D -> C# -> D) - Ab

down to Eb, same thing as on C, now Eb major is established

Eb: Eb – (D -> C -> B -> C) – G

Now you could go on in the same way F–7 G–7 and via Ab–7 modulate to Gbmaj7 and further up to Amaj7 and further up back to C which is a Barry exercise AFAIK.

In the context of tunes normally only one of those modulations makes sense, e.g. Night And Day is a candidate going from the Eb in bars 31 and 32 to the Gb in bar 33 and so forth (assumed basic key of Eb major).

[rintincop]

Is that a yes to the question I asked?

[Christian Miller]

Often have to chop them down a bit. It’s always like that with piano stuff.

[Bop Head]

Is that a yes to the question I asked?

Partially. It is using the embellished diatonic walkups and in your first example to modulate* – adapted to guitar. Whereby I have to admit that it is much easier on guitar without the chromatic notes below the diatonic sixths.

* Of course I did not invent that. It is in the Lincoln Center video series and in the videos by Polish pianist Tomasz Bialowolski.

[Bop Head]

Your second part is hard to impossible to adapt to one guitar for me. Probably I should practice hybrid picking more. I learned something much simpler today from a video by trumpet player Richie Vitale who had picked it up at Barry’s Jazz Cultural Theatre.

[Jimmy Smith]

Thanks for posting that exercise. I'm doing the full one on keys and it sounds lovely.

Do you guitarists who train within the Barry Harris system also adapt these pianistic chord movements that Barry taught?

Is that a rhetorical question? :P

[James W]

There are similar exercises in Martin Taylor's chord-melody book.

[Bop Head]

I was reflecting a bit about the tenth stuff: maybe one could play them as thirds for two-note comping when playing together e.g. with a piano or bass — instead of playing just thirds and sevenths. I have to check that out (with a playback ATM). Moving a seventh down to the diatonic note below, down one more half-step and back up one half-step works nicely in that context.

[Reg]

Yes just different guitar style voicings. We use 3rds and 6ths, 10ths are difficult.

Typically one would use 4th string roots for your example.... (F)

x x 3 5 5 5
x x 5 7 6 6
x x 7 9 8 8
x x 8 10 10 10
x x 10 12 11 12
x x 12 14 14 14
x x 14 15 15 15

Or use lower RT 6th versions

1 x 2 2 1 x
3 x 3 3 3 x
5 x 5 5 5 x
6 x 7 7 6 x
8 x 8 9 8 x
10 x 10 10 10 x
12 x 12 12 11 x

You can then start using drop voicings. Just playing your examples Diatonic would be like kid stuff, right. And then adding the F# and G# to 1st four chords .... keep going etc...

Anyway... kids stuff right. Then muddy it up, LOL

[Jimmy Smith]

Anyway... kids stuff right. Then muddy it up, LOL

Yes, Reg. All playing or conceptions on this forum are either beneath you or muddy.

[Bop Head]

Yes just different guitar style voicings. We use 3rds and 6ths, 10ths are difficult.

Typically one would use 4th string roots for your example.... (F)

x x 3 5 5 5
x x 5 7 6 6
x x 7 9 8 8
x x 8 10 10 10
x x 10 12 11 12
x x 12 14 14 14
x x 14 15 15 15

Or use lower RT 6th versions

1 x 2 2 1 x
3 x 3 3 3 x
5 x 5 5 5 x
6 x 7 7 6 x
8 x 8 9 8 x
10 x 10 10 10 x
12 x 12 12 11 x

You can then start using drop voicings. Just playing your examples Diatonic would be like kid stuff, right. And then adding the F# and G# to 1st four chords .... keep going etc...

Anyway... kids stuff right. Then muddy it up, LOL

Reg, reading your post it seems like you did not even look at the music in the OP. Playing the diatonic chords of a major scale in a row is no problem at all. BTW your examples are drop voicings already — drop 2 with the roots of the chords on the 4th string and drop 3 with the roots on the sixth string. That’s easy-peasy. Those embellishments are what is difficult to add to that on guitar — especially when two voices are moving in parallel.

[rintincop]

It’s easy over any tune’s chord changes on piano. And contrary motion with the left hand ascending from #5 6 7 movement or 7 8 9 movement is also easy on piano. Any note can be put in the lead on piano and the left hand can still play the same role underneath. It doesn’t have to be 10’s (3rds) or unison ... Any note in the lead is easy on piano
for moving the top note of each hand in “our big chord”. The fun starts when we can turn and vary the melody any which way while still tracking below with the movement in the left hand. I suppose that’s a lot harder to manage on guitar, especially the contrary motion...

[Reg]

Yes the diatonic stuff is easy and sight readable. Not getting all the notes would be part of it. Part of the nature of guitar... you can't play 10 notes all the time just because you can. Which would be cool on piano... LOL

The using of melodic figures on top and within is where it obviously gets technically. But on guitar you just play the melodic lines and play or voice what ever notes of the changes your using as needed and make them rhythmically count. Once changes are established... they're heard or implied so you use melodic lines to develop the harmony.

Take Rintincops example and get past the basic... or create longer chord vamps... even just II V I VI with all the standard subs can create even longer chord patterns . Yea personally I don't like the somewhat classic sounding vanilla versions, with b9 and Dim movements as doorways or embellishments... but it obviously works for some.

The bottom line is trying to play inner voice contrapuntal piano style just doesn't work or sound like lazz on the guitar. It can be beautiful... and generally works better solo or compose and arranged works.

[Reg]

Moving on with examples by Rintincops .... which I would guess, most of the BH approach players would have been through...

But thought I would add.... as Bop head pointed out my examples of using basic guitar rt position diatonic 7th chord voicings on Rt 4 and Rt 6 strings, which I posted basic Rt 6th, 5th and 4th string guitar voicing over a decade ago on one of my old threads. Anyway those are starting points and for just learning the fretboard.

Drop 2 voicings for 4th and 5th string and drop 3 for 6th string. For the record.... drop voicings are designed from the top note down and in closed position. And using chord tones of 7th chords.
Different top notes create different drop 2 or drop 3, 4, 2&4 etc... Your creating a spread voicing from an existing closed voicing.

As in the rt 6th string voicings I posted are drop 3. The point is ... as ones gets basic voicings construction down and learns the fretboard, you move on to guidelines as to how to create voicings with different lead notes .

If you have a 9th, sus or altered chord.... the drop whatever approach changes, There are standard guidelines for how to treat different chord tones and tensions...

My point is one usually doesn't use drop style voicings only. there are many other arranging aspects that come into consideration depending on chord, range, harmonic rhythm etc... there are styles and guidelines. Like clusters, 4ths etc... and with guitar you need to make adjustments, which is why I've always said the top note is always most important. Again the style of intervals you use also is very important on guitar.

On piano it's very easy to see, at least with the basics.... and sometimes why later... you see polychord notation which is easy to see on piano... like D7b13#9 being notated as Bb/D7 .... that's a different subject.

Anyway that is where CST actually become very useful... help with adding extensions and tensions with overall harmonic as well as melodic organization. And the possibilities... there are many options.