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Follow-up for the less schooled hobbyist:
I bought Alan Kingstone's book, "The Barry Harris Harmonic Method for Guitar", and though I took 2 semesters of music theory back in high school.... um.. that was a long, long time ago, and I'm feeling the need for a fill-in. Yes, we went through Ellie Seigmeister's book "Harmony and Melody" but only did book one. Kept it for many years but it got lost in a move... and seriously, that was 45 plus years ago. Most remembered are the basics of modes and scales and inversions... not a lot of substitution. Substitution "stuff" came more from work with Mickey Baker... but advanced scale work like Sixth Diminished scales and thinking of scales as derived from 2 chords as Barry does here... that's all new to me. Yes, I'm a rube.
One of the things I see around these internet days is while there seem to be acres written on Seventh Chords of one type or another, there just isn't much (online at least) about Sixth chords and all their types. And I say this as someone trying to put context to Kingstone's work by backing it out of Barry's Diminshed Scales back into the major scale... as just a place to start. Call it the eagle eye view of the slacker if you will.
Someone will tell me that I should have already read through the full 51 pages of Barry Harris articles here. Really? Yes, in truth that's fair, and I should have done a lot of things... and that's the least of them. My apologies. But if you'll bear with me....
I wonder whether there's a good Pre-Quel for this Barry Harris book. I'm sure the videos (both "free" linked here and the discs available from Kingstone's site and possibly elsewhere ) will be helpful at some point. But I'm asking whether there's not a really good book - other than the same I had long ago - out there? or maybe a different resource? I'll ask my guitar coach, too, but just curious about your thoughts. I've taken a couple of stabs at this so far with not a lot of luck.
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10-06-2022 11:22 AM
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This gentleman does a really good job of breaking down BH's ideas into small digestible ideas in short videos.
Things I've Learned From Barry Harris - YouTube
I bought Kingstone's book several years ago and spent an entire summer re-learning the fretboard by diligently daily drilling the chord inversions in his book until I had "re-wired" my brain's image of the fretboard. That book is a great resource and highly recommend it but it did take me a lot of re-re-re-reading parts to fully figure out how to incorporate it into my playing. Keep at it.
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V7 to I. Dominant to Tonic. Tension that is Released and Resolved. Getting back Home. A Turnaround is the most basic form we have on these tunes-getting back to home. It’s all about building tension and hearing the resolution, the drive towards consonance.
in the first DVD series, Barry starts out, “people think Bird played Gm7 to D7. That’s impossible. He played D7. So, in order for us to start thinking about improvisation, we have to come to terms with the dominant 7th chord”.
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The best book I know on jazz harmony is “Jazz Theory — a creative approach” by Kenneth Stanton (with a foreword by Teddy Wilson) from 1982 (publisher: Taplinger, New York).
It is long out of print* AFAIK but you can find it as PDFs in two parts at platforms like Scribd. Just google for it with “filetype
df”. There are also some used copies on ebay ATM.
(If I got you right and that was what you are asking for.)
* BTW can someone tell me how to find out the rights owner of such a book — author passed away, publishing company does not exist any more? I am seriously thinking about working that typewriter-written book with hand-written music examples into a modern format.
EDIT: It should read “filetype[colon]pdf” but the forum software renders a smiley
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I don’t know of any suitable books, but if it helps, here’s my own simplified ‘bite-size’ take on it all.
There’s nothing mysterious about the sixth chord, it’s just root, 3rd, 5th, 6th. Sounds quite nice, with a bit of colour in it. One advantage is that it never clashes with the tonic note (whereas a maj7 chord can sometimes sound a bit odd under a tonic note).
You can fit a diminished chord between all its inversions (as Barry does, see Alan’s book for the precise details) and this gives you a neat scale of chords to create harmonic movement with. As Navdeep pointed out, the 6th chords are tonic, the dim chords are acting as dominants.
So if you play C6 and its related dim chords up and down as per Alan’s book, really you are just playing Cmajor and G7b9 chords. (All the dim chords in each scale are the same as each other, effectively).
Then you can do the same thing with Cmin6.
So this gives you a lot of mileage with just 2 basic chord types.
How do you use it? Well big subject, but for example if a tune has 2 bars of C major, you can play the C6/dim scale over it and create some interesting chord movement. Or use it to harmonise the melody in those 2 bars to create a chord-melody arrangement.
It’s not a new concept (Barry did not claim to have invented it), it’s an old big-band arranger’s harmonisation method and I believe Chopin used it too.
You can take it further and substitute the scale for other chord types, thus widening its application, that’s a bit more complicated but Alan’s book covers this, as does the ‘Things I Learned from Barry Harris’ youtube channel.Last edited by grahambop; 10-06-2022 at 01:08 PM.
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Exactly this. To me the movement from C6 6o D° back to C6 is just little episodic, representational “V7-Is” that we can use to create variety, interest, flow, and forward motion, tension that is released and resolved. That’s the simplest, most elemental way of thinking about it. Instead of memorizing all these opaque chords with tons of extensions, we can do the same thing with the 6th diminished “scale of chords”. It’s called a scale of chords because the entire 8 note scale is made up of the 4 tones of each chord of the C6 and D°.
Originally Posted by grahambop
The other way of thinking about it and simplifying matters: (1) treat each V7 chord like a diminished chord and move it up a minor third, getting a related family of chords that you can play into each other (G7-Bb7-Db7-E7) to create different ways of representing tension-dissonance. You can also do this with the four related m6 chords associated with each diminished chord, that are treated the same way. (I.,e, like a diminished chord, moved up a minor 3rd). Each minor 6 chord built from the diminished chord is a kind of “V7” kind of tension-dissonance.
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There’s still nothing out there in print or electrons to beat the two dvd/book sets from Howard Rees to cover the ABCs of Barry’s improv and harmony teachings. Alan’s book is a great intro to the harmonic method on guitar but doesn’t touch on improv.
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As I understand it the OP needs some help on the basics. Alan’s book and the Rees DVDs require some basic knowledge. Originally Posted by pcjazz
EDIT: Correct me if I am wrong.
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This thread reminds me I have to find Alan’s book. It’s like arc of the covenant in the government warehouse over here, literary hundreds of music books on shelves. Was it spiral bound or not? Trying to remember.
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The thing is that sixth chords have the reputation of sounding old-fashioned today. I have really learned to love the sound of sixth chords in recent years through my occupation with Barry Harris and I start to hear them everywhere in older recordings. There are two types that are relevant, major and minor 6th, e.g. Originally Posted by JWMandy
C - E - G - A (C6)
and
C - Eb - G - A (Cm6)
They are basically used for tonic chords (I) and sub-dominants (IV) in major resp. minor. Then there are certain methods of using those chords (and their accompanying diminished chords, Do: D – F - Ab - B for the examples above) as substitutes for other chords.
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This video presents a good summary of Barry Harris's harmonic concepts:
Barry Harris line building concepts are covered very well in the youtube series mentioned in the second post.
If you already know basic functional diatonic harmony you got the prerequisites as far as theory goes. But most of the work is in the application of the concepts in musical situations. Although BH talked about some musical concepts differently than in music texts (eg "arpeggios"), once you get what the terms mean it's easy to co-exist in both worlds.
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Pretty sure mine is spiral bound. Originally Posted by NSJ
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found it after 15 minutes of looking. I remember it being yellow. Also found the two Barry Harris, accompanying booklets and DVDs for both series. As I recall, Alan was the guitarist in the second series. Originally Posted by grahambop
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What about the tutorials on the Barry Harris site?
Approach to Improvised Lines & Harmony | barryharrisjazz
4 Important Chord Types & Their Scales | barryharrisjazz
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They are ok although quite old now and superseded by other materials. There is also a series of (I think 4) articles by Howard Rees in Keyboard Magazine which were linked to on his site. Even better for the OP’s purposes might be the 7-part “Barry Harris breaks down jazz theory” series on YouTube. But for ongoing practical study the Rees dvd/book packages can’t be beat. Originally Posted by dhaskins
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Shouldn’t we wait for a reaction from the OP before we post everything again that has been posted before in yet another 50-page Barry Harris thread? Originally Posted by pcjazz
Those Keyboard Articles and the video series from Lincoln Center are pretty advanced (at least partly) BTW IMHO.
IMHO it is a sign of good pedagogy to pay close attention to what someone really needs. (I have had only one guitar student so far — long ago — but I have worked with toddlers, with mentally disabled persons and with adult language students.)
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OP doesn’t identify as a toddler, mentally disabled or linguistically challenged but as someone with some schooling in theory who has worked through the Mickey Baker books. If he wants to jump into Barry’s teaching more old school theory isn’t likely to help him much, imnsho. Originally Posted by Bop Head
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I never called him a toddler nor mentally disabled nor an engineering student in Jordan (Does one call those “linguistically challenged”? Isn’t “challenged” PC for “disabled”? I am no speech therapist, I once was a student of language pedagogy.) Originally Posted by pcjazz
He identified himself as “less schooled hobbyist” who wants to refresh his knowledge about harmony and theory to understand BH better — at least that is how I understood him. But I would like him to get more precise about his needs before we get another long confusing thread, that’s all.
And the book I recommended may be old school. But in ca. 200 pages it goes way more into detail than the Mickey Baker book about keys and diatonic harmony, secondary dominants, II-Vs, substitutions (he knows “not a lot of substitution” the OP wrote) etc. in a very structured way. (No modes and CST BTW.) I have looked into quite a lot books like that and I found this one the best. I really recommend it and its a pity it is out of print.
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Probably the best of the current in-print theory texts is David Berkman’s Jazz Theory Book (Sher). It has the added advantage of a chapter explaining some of the differences between Barry’s approach and the academic norm.
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Thanks guys. Sorry - it's STILL a heavy duty day at my end of the pipe. As to mental capacity and tenacious persistence, note that my day job has been as one of those investment portfolio managers for 36 years, so yes.... mentally challenged? Absolutely. If I'd been smart, I'd have been a life guard. Just saying.
So let me say thank you for the few notes so far. Very encouraging. And I apologize that I'm just checking in this late in the day, but delighted to see some help on the way.
Let me see if I can fill in a few things:
What I think I'm after:
1) Agree, this should NOT become another 50 page Barry Harris memo.
2) I'm looking for some discussion of chords to scales - which I think is the Barry Harris way (I'd never thought of it this way before so that's new).
3) I have seen some of the "Things I learned from Barry Harris" youtubes, and some of that is helpful, some is ahead of where I am.
4) For the record, I'm not yet at trying to absorb Barry Harris for the purpose of improv at this point. I'm looking to understand his thinking on scales and chords and playing my instrument BECAUSE I think that could be helpful down the road.
5) But I'm happy and looking for some more BASIC background to refer some of Barry's discussions where I find I'm weak, and a text on theory - one or more - would surely help.
My background - FWIW:
1) Diatonic - I'm decent on the theory that relates to that.
2) Substitutions - I'm more aware there than skilled. Middle age years were spent playing classical guitar - again a hobbyist. By your reference points, not a music school guy, but a hobbyist. Returning after some years, I want to go down the jazz road and just have fun... where fun isn't afraid of hard work. I actually like the routines of practice and making progress, and am not afraid to pummel the fretboard to get somewhere. Like to find keys... and one I've kept in my back pocket was always "The BEAD method for Guitar". Handy. Wish there were a similar "key" for theory!
3) Bought a workbook on guitar theory, but found it weak on discussion that would give you the bones. Maybe what I'm after is more like my original music theory text? Yes, I found it for sale on ebay... !!! but didn't pull the trigger thinking "There absolutely has to be a more current reference..."
4) But let's not over-estimate my ability / need: I don't need the "latest and greatest". I'd be happy to improvise / arrange / play like Herb Ellis or any of the other greats. Even if it sound "dated"... so long as it doesn't sound like Muzak (yes, that dates me... or "elevator music" or "floating jazz") I'm good.
5) So of your kindness, I'm asking for a good, reference text. Maybe two of them - sequential.
Nothing in the head counts until it comes out the amp, and the ears hear what the head thinks it wants. I like to reverse the usual and say that the body is willing, but the mind gets in the way.
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The Roni Ben Hur book "Talk Jazz" does a really nice job of laying out the basics in small, easy to digest bites - TALK JAZZ GUITAR: Roni Ben-Hur:
He also has a DVD that includes a ton of PDFs that contain multiple ways to view the concepts as they relate to chords and harmony - jazzbooks.com: Product Details
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Talking of Roni Ben-Hur — I had totally forgotten about this video:
This is the basic concept of sixth / diminished in a nutshell.
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Do you understand the concept of harmonising a scale? That’s all that Barry is doing really. (so actually it’s more like turning a scale into a series of chords.) Originally Posted by JWMandy
So if you stack the appropriate chord notes on each degree of the major scale, you get a chord for each note of the scale (they are a mixture of major, minor, dominant, and min7b5 chords), you should google ‘harmonising a scale’ if you’re not familiar with this idea.
All Barry did was slightly alter that process (by first adding a b6 to the major scale), at a stroke this turns the harmonised scale into a much simpler series of chords, i.e. just sixth chords and diminished chords. This is easier to use, it just consists of tonic chords and dominant chords effectively. (because the diminished chords are equivalent to dominant chords).
So at a ‘high level’ it’s not a different concept really, it’s still just a harmonised scale.
The application, i.e. what to do with it, is more complicated, I tried to cover some of this in my earlier post.
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I’ll echo what Graham said about Barry simplifying the myriad of chord chemistry and confusion about extensions-#5s,b9s all that modal stuff. It’s down to this; V7 is treated like diminished chord; dim chords can be moved up in minor thirds. Each V7 chord has three associated dominant 7th chords that can be played into each other, whiteout thinking about subs, extensions, alterations. Each dim chord creates 4 m6 chords that can also be played into each other, each m6 acting as a V7 chord, in a kind of a way. Your ears will tell you about what kind of sounds each can give.
He greatly essentializes and truncates the myriad of chords you have to work though.
The Barry Harris cheat sheet
1. ii-6 = V9 (rootless)
2. bvi-6 = V7b9#5 (rootless)
3. IV6 = ii-7
4. V6 = iii-7
5. V6 = IM9 (rootless)
6. biii°----> ii-7 or iii-7
7. #IV° ----> I6/V
8. In fact, biii° = #IV°
9. In fact, the easiest way to remember how to use and name ° chords in any given key is-----
I°------> I6 or ii-7
IV°------> ii-7
V°-------> I6
10. I6 = vi-7
11. i-6 = vi-7b5
12. I6 = IVM9 (rootless )
13. i-6 = IV9 (rootless)
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This is perfect! Thanks!
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