Music Theory vs Harmony

[stylo]

1212038[/URL]]Actually it’s the harmony that’s imaginary and the counterpoint that is real (and despite what I said about scientism I believe I can prove it lol)

I think I've mentioned to you in lessons but with my singing background it certainly helps me to think of it this way. Every four-note-chord progression is a barbershop quarter in miniature!

[rintincop]

“Music theory is the study of the practices and possibilities of music. The Oxford Companion to Musicdescribes three interrelated uses of the term "music theory". The first is the "rudiments", that are needed to understand music notation (key signatures, time signatures, and rhythmic notation); the second is learning scholars' views on music from antiquity to the present; the third is a sub-topic of musicology that "seeks to define processes and general principles in music". The musicological approach to theory differs from music analysis "in that it takes as its starting-point not the individual work or performance but the fundamental materials from which it is built."^{[1]”
Wikipedia}

[rintincop]

In my mind, Debussy freed us from the restrictions of traditional voice leading. Long live parallelism and surprise chords!

[rintincop]

A theoretical (harmonic) analysis of Debussy’s “Engulfed Cathedral”

[MrCoconut]

However you want to harmonize, you should analyze your theoretical ability to have some fun.

[Jonah]

I like this example.

Can we all play descending G major scale? Usually abstract descendingscale playing has intuitive rhythmic organzation da-di-da-Da,da-di-da-Da (kind of pickup phrasing). (ascending one students usually starting on beat 4+4, but pickup prasing with accent on subdominant also happens)

Whatever....

Here we have descending G major scale which is completely organized through its relation to harmony... everything about this melodic line and how it is percieved is defined by underlining harmony ...
And by the way many people (even musician) do not recognize it is descending major scale inmmidiately - and it is good for them... they have a good ear for integrity.

This is very obvious example...

(By the way 'scale' mode of thinking may just drive one crazy here - 'First it is G Ionian, then E aeolian, then B - oh my.... and they change so quickly, it is so dense...')

we can take Bach fugue with its multiple re-harmonization of the theme - sometimes brought to extreme.. like all the potential possibilities of the theme expolored in the artistic way... there will be counterpoint texture.

But in any case harmony creates and defines form and most crucial pivots and climax of it

[pauln]

Music theory explains what a composer created.

I believe music is intrinsically self revealing of what the composer created. That sounds pretty abstract, but my aptitude test way back in college indicated orchestra conductor or mathematician... when I reflect back on that it kind of explains a lot since then.

I mean this is theory, right? Neo-Riemannian theory - Wikipedia
It's absolutely bobbins IMO but the people who do this stuff are professional music theorists

Now you've gone and done it, blown my summer, going to have to take a look at that.
Honestly, thanks.

[MrCoconut]

So the Leon Dallin book has an exercise in the intro (who puts exercises in the intro?)
It says:
Harmonize the following chorale melody in a conventional four part style observing the traditional principles
of chord choice, voice leading, spacing and doubling.
I just did the first bar of the piece. The video has the first bar and then my attempt to harmonize it.
Let me know if I did this correctly. Thanks!

[Jonah]

So the Leon Dallin book has an exercise in the intro (who puts exercises in the intro?)
It says:
Harmonize the following chorale melody in a conventional four part style observing the traditional principles
of chord choice, voice leading, spacing and doubling.
I just did the first bar of the piece. The video has the first bar and then my attempt to harmonize it.
Let me know if I did this correctly. Thanks!

First of all the bass can (and often should) be separate from other voices.
So you do not have to consider bass position when you think of a triad position (close - open).

Then first chord is most probably a tonic chord and it should have a root in the bass.

Then the harmonic motion on that level is mostly about T-D-T directly in its main chords I -V-I and it's inversions.

Try to avoid parallel motion in outer voices (bass soprano)

Then fill in middle voices trying to avoid parallel 5ths and 8ves.

[MrCoconut]

First of all the bass can (and often should) be separate from other voices.
So you do not have to consider bass position when you think of a triad position (close - open).

Then first chord is most probably a tonic chord and it should have a root in the bass.

Then the harmonic motion on that level is mostly about T-D-T directly in its main chords I -V-I and it's inversions.

Try to avoid parallel motion in outer voices (bass soprano)

Then fill in middle voices trying to avoid parallel 5ths and 8ves.

Good stuff. I'll give it another shot.

[MrCoconut]

Here's my 2nd attempt.

[Jonah]

Here's my 2nd attempt.

Do not drop out chord tones.
Your first chord has no 5th.
Note that it is OK if one or two of the voice do not move at all too unless it creates parallel intervals.

Last chord is diminished triad... I think in this context it should be simpler

[MrCoconut]

Thanks Jonah for taking the time and checking it out.
I really appreciate it.

I'm going to do another version.

I think Piston's Harmony book is the best resource (at least that I have) to learn this stuff and I will be spending
a lot more time with it.

[Reg]

Hey Joe... here's a link to species counterpoint... simple version. It's a good source for traditional theory and harmony Guidelines... It's usually better to figure out the simple mistakes that have me just tell you. At least give it a try.
There are also many choices that will work... be correct within the old school guidelines. I'm around for the next couple of weeks... so I'll stay in touch.
https://viva.pressbooks.pub/openmusi...-counterpoint/

[Reg]

Also... most of the rules or guidelines are generally the opposite of what is common practice when arranging in a jazz style... really.

Stuart Smith has a free on line Jazz Theory book Which you can also get through Scribd... you can usually get a 60 day free trial.
https://www.cs.uml.edu/~stu/JazzTheory.pdf
Jazz Theory, Stuart Smith

[MrCoconut]

Reg,
Thanks!
I have procured the Stuart Smith pdf. Thanks for the references and link.
I've got a lot to work on for the foreseeable future.
It might be awhile but I'll be back.

[Jonah]

Thanks Jonah for taking the time and checking it out.
I really appreciate it.

I'm going to do another version.

I think Piston's Harmony book is the best resource (at least that I have) to learn this stuff and I will be spending
a lot more time with it.

If you want to get classical voice-leading just spent more time with classical music)

And you can try this book too (I have no idea why they put Handel on the cover)))
https://www.amazon.com/Harmonized-Ch.../dp/0486445496

[James W]

Note that it is OK if one or two of the voice do not move at all too unless it creates parallel intervals.

If a voice doesn't move while others do, that creates oblique motion rather than parallel.

[Christian Miller]

If a voice doesn't move while others do, that creates oblique motion rather than parallel.

i think Jonah meant parallel fifths and octaves, although im not sure if understood because these could only arise from similar motion between parts.

@MrCoconut
There’s got to be a step by step tutorial on chorale harmony on YouTube though, I’ll see if I can track one down. I would start with a bassline in contrary motion to the melody and there’s very conventional ways to approach the cadence, generally V-I in the bass and so on.

Echoing reg and Jonah… I wouldn’t bother with classical voice leading unless your aim is to improve your classical harmony knowledge, and if this is your aim you need to spend some time with that music. most jazzers seem to fixate on Bach at some point …

But I like looking at the voices in the chords in terms of their motion for jazz fretboard harmony.

On guitar parallel and oblique motion are a lot easier and more common than contrary, but the latter can be really effective.

One type of movement that’s incredibly effective is what I call staggered similar motion; it’s like what you get in a suspension chain but can be applied in all sorts of ways. A lot of the Mick Goodrick voice leading things fall into this category. Very simple to demonstrate the basic principle if this sounds a bit complicated. I might do a video on it.

[Litterick]

Nadia Boulanger, 'taught harmony entirely by way of melodic lines, which combine to make vertical sonorities. The idea of “chords” as things in themselves was foreign to her approach. Fourpart harmony exercises were written on four staves. Each voice was sung, as one played the other three. The voices were personalized: “this poor little tenor sol-fa-mi.” She approached all music as if it were vocal music, and played it that way. Debussy’s rich parallel-ninth chords were not a series of chords but the vertical results of parallel melodic lines, each one of which was distinct and beautiful—“each a cello.”

[Christian Miller]

Nadia Boulanger, 'taught harmony entirely by way of melodic lines, which combine to make vertical sonorities. The idea of “chords” as things in themselves was foreign to her approach. Fourpart harmony exercises were written on four staves. Each voice was sung, as one played the other three. The voices were personalized: “this poor little tenor sol-fa-mi.” She approached all music as if it were vocal music, and played it that way. Debussy’s rich parallel-ninth chords were not a series of chords but the vertical results of parallel melodic lines, each one of which was distinct and beautiful—“each a cello.”

Thats what I was on about; great quote! Where is this from?

[Christian Miller]

I’ve found this guy’s videos to be decent

[Jonah]

If a voice doesn't move while others do, that creates oblique motion rather than parallel.

True. But hidden parallel octaves are quite possible for example.

anyway I just meant that application of this conception should not exclude following other rules, and I just used 'parallel motion' as generalization. I should have written it more clearly I agree.

[MrCoconut]

I’ve found this guy’s videos to be decent

Thanks Christian.
What a great video! Just watched.
Thanks for taking the time to find this and post it.

As someone who uses youtube for everything from Tchaikovsky to kitchen sink repairs it
never crossed my mind look for something like that.
Looks like that channel has lots of good stuff.

Jonah, Thanks for the book link for the Bach Chorales even if Handel is on the cover)))

[Litterick]

Thats what I was on about; great quote! Where is this from?

Allen Shawn's memoir in the Atlantic.