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I just got to wondering why certain chords are played they way they are. An example is a dominant G7 which can be played as below.
What is the theory or reason why this is preferred to the typical bar chord played by rock musicians?
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06-05-2022 08:10 PM
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Two reasons immediately spring to mind:
1. The first example contains all the necessary information to describe the chord.
2. It also mimics the harmonic or overtone series where the intervals that make up the chord become progressively smaller as they ascend.
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Yes, the simpler version is indeed all that's needed.
Originally Posted by PMB
What you say about the harmonics is something I had not considered. Interesting.
I do find the second version cleaner sounding, because it doesn't have the deadened strings in the middle of it.
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Frees up 2 fingers for chord melody options?
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How? Given that you need to deaden the A string, you can't use a bar? At most I can free one finger. Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
It's a good thought however. Anytime you can free up a finger means you can add melody and or extra extensions.
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Have to strum a 6 note chord, can pluck a four note one
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Yeah, valid point. Originally Posted by BWV
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First example is more use by fingerstyle players -only 4 notes
Second one is popular for pick players-6 notes.
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OK, but I also see ppeople strum the first one - hence the 'x' on the strings to deaden. Originally Posted by kris
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...but is it precise and sounds good? Originally Posted by j4zz
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Originally Posted by kris
I think it depends on the player.
And also with 'thumb over the neck' to fret the bass and using barre also allows to have 3rd and 4th finger for extra notes for pick player.
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Yeah, I was always taught never to put my thumb over the top, and it stuck with me. I don't do it at all. Originally Posted by Jonah
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So many many teachers, books, and youtube vids suggest these chords with deadened strings, that I assumed jazz players agreed it was the done thing. Are you saying you don't because you don't like the sound? That's what I thought at first, and didn't want to buck the trend. Originally Posted by kris
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I rarely use those 6-note ‘rock’ chords for jazz, they tend to sound too thick and heavy for comping, and for solo guitar you often want minimal chords that allow more freedom to move around and to build lines around the chords, so leaving one or two fingers free is better.
I use the thumb over the neck a lot for these chords, works well with a pick.
Also in jazz you often need to put extensions/altered notes at the top end of the chord, so you don’t want to be encumbered with unnecessary notes at the bottom end.
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Yes, 6 note chords do sound quite different to most comping chords I hear. Originally Posted by grahambop
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I played classical guitar since early years and obviously I was also taught 'correct' technique... I began to play steel strings only when I was much over 20 and I was first shocked with the idea to play 'thumb over the neck'... Originally Posted by j4zz
Yeah, I was always taught never to put my thumb over the top, and it stuck with me. I don't do it at all.
But peopel are different, I usually adapt new technical ideas quite easily.
Now I use 'thumb over the neck' a lot when I play archtops or electric guitars or acoustics.
But I can do both and kind of choose it depending on the context.
For strumming with musting some strings it maybe very practical.
Also when you need firm grip for some bending on heavy strings.
I also play lutes and when I do that I think I mentally totally switch from one aproach to another. Just like I am totally in a different world.
(By the way this technique was quite common on some historical instruments like 7 string guitar)
What I am trying to say: give it a try but watch carefully about your wrist to avoid pains.
what I cannot do is sus chord voicing with thumb over the neck -
G sus
3-x- 3-2-1-x
I cannot make such a strecth of thumb at least with a clear relliable sound but Pat Metheny and Russel Malone do it all the time.
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If I wanted all those four notes, I would do it as a bar chord and mute the A string. But the non-bar version have the benefit of being easy to reduce further to
3 X 3 4 X X or
X X 3 4 3 X
I find the atter especially useful if I need to stay out of a bass player's way, and it's also a classic chord shape in classic R&B or soul
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It all depends also on the musical style ...
Listen as Pat Metheny comping on acoustic guitars.
Jim Hall-he also used beautiful full chords.
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Speaking as a former (prog) rock musician, I don't know about the second one being a typical voicing: you've got a power chord thingy going on at the bottom there, which you may or may not want at a particular time.
The first one for comping works fine, though the bassist may want you to lose the bottom note. It also frees you up to add extentions on top as appropriate. Muting unwanted strings is an essential part of one's technique as a guitarist.
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What would Django do?
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He was playing gypsy chords... Originally Posted by Litterick
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Too much harmonic information makes for a muddy sound. 2-3 notes is often plenty. Smaller the group, bigger the chords....but even in a duo with a melody instrument/voice, 4 note chords are usually as big as I go.
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I use both..the full chords are a nice contrast to minimal sounds..but then those three and four note chords are nice for chord runs, their inversions and using scale/melodic fragments found in the chord forms and neighboring notes..
as the electric guitar evolves ( 7, 8,10 strings) and computer effects enhance the sounds it can produce and musicians creativity extends into new and exciting possibilities
we will witness and be part of the evolution..it was only in 1967 when Jimi Hendrix first played in the US..today his playing in some respects seems time locked and he was an innovator
Listen to the early work of the group..The Police..Andy Summers played fantastic chords and made the three piece group sound melodic/harmonic without the heavy onslaught of six note barre chords punching out rhythm riffs
today there are many new players using harmony as a melodic way to build compositions the intense works of harmonic investigators like Ted Greene and many others is now
being used more frequently in todays music of all styles..
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A lot will depend on the bass and piano players if you are playing with others. As others have said, the bass notes can get disproportionately heavy if the guitar player uses them while the others have them covered. But there are creative ways to finger the same chord based on what your fretting hand can do. A lot of times I will use a barre fretting structure but filter my picking hand to only play 3-4 notes. Lots of years of practice and listening to what I am doing made it work for me.
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If you play the full barre G7, the D note on the A string muddies up the sound. There may be a slight intonation problem because of equal temperament, but I'm not sure about that.
The chord will sound better, at least to some people, with more separation between the bass note and the rest of the chord. Also, the fifth is heard as an overtone of the root anyway, which makes it a little less important to include. Jimmy Bruno, among others, leave out the D on the second string as well.
The other difference is the high G. I think that note makes a statement in rock or blues that isn't as desirable in jazz. It can conflict with the melody or solo. And, it doesn't add much. You're already playing a G, so is the bassist and those G's generate octave harmonics so the higher G is already faintly heard.
Beyond that, it's the sound inherent in the style. Imagine Freddie Green with Count Basie playing full barre chords. Wouldn't sound right, would it?
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