The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Posts 101 to 125 of 132
  1. #101

    User Info Menu

    This is why we can't have nice things. Opinions are inevitable here; necessary, even, here being a forum. Having a hissy fit because someone does not like a musician's style, technique or tone seems a waste of time and effort. Far better would be to counter the criticism with positive observations. Denigrating forum members as faceless keyboard warriors is unpleasant; they are members of this forum and deserve to be treated with respect. Famous jazz musicians have opinions but, since they are not members of this forum, we can say what we like about them within the bounds of taste and defamation. We can also say what we like about their music, so long as what we say makes sense.

    Louis Armstrong said bebop was Chinese music; he doubtless offended many bebop fans, and many more Chinese, but that hardly matters now. Wynton Marsalis said, 'Louis Armstrong is jazz. He represents what the music is all about,' a claim that is at least disputable, if not ridiculous. We are not obliged to respect these opinions. If you like bebop, go ahead and say what you think about Armstrong. If you dislike Wynton Marsalis, say so. If you think a guitarist is not very good, don't keep it to yourself. This is a forum. Your opinions are needed.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

    User Info Menu

    Hmmm, why can't we all just get along ... I know, maybe if we subdivided the forum to keep the warring factions apart?

    Let's see ... ok, how about if we have 3 sub forums?

    1. Straight Ahead - The Forum for Jazz guitar music that some people find boring, old hat, old fogey, mouldy old fig, conservative etc

    2. Sports Jazz - the Forum for the kinds of Jazz guitar that the Straight Ahead guys don't like very much because it's too fast, too loud and unmusical.

    3. Nerd Jazz (AKA Maths Jazz) - The Forum for the kinds of Jazz that the straight-aheaders and sports jazz folk don't like because it's too clever (as well as unmusical).


    Whaddya reckon?

  4. #103

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    Hmmm, why can't we all just get along ... I know, maybe if we subdivided the forum to keep the warring factions apart?

    Let's see ... ok, how about if we have 3 sub forums?

    1. Straight Ahead - The Forum for Jazz guitar music that some people find boring, old hat, old fogey, mouldy old fig, conservative etc

    2. Sports Jazz - the Forum for the kinds of Jazz guitar that the Straight Ahead guys don't like very much because it's too fast, too loud and unmusical.

    3. Nerd Jazz (AKA Maths Jazz) - The Forum for the kinds of Jazz that the straight-aheaders and sports jazz folk don't like because it's too clever (as well as unmusical).


    Whaddya reckon?
    What about a forum for people who take music on its own terms?

  5. #104

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    What about a forum for people who take music on its own terms?
    You mean to say we actually have those kinds of people around here? OK, then done - a 4th (micro-niche) forum for them. Are we good?

  6. #105

    User Info Menu

    Two quotes come to mind at this juncture: one from Dirty Harry (regarding opinions) and the other from Frank Zappa. I'm not necessarily a fan of the former, fwiw, but it's a good line nonetheless.

  7. #106

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    You mean to say we actually have those kinds of people around here? OK, then done - a 4th (micro-niche) forum for them. Are we good?
    yeah, my mistake I forgot where I was lol

  8. #107

    User Info Menu

    So who's going to be the policeman, and keep everyone in the correct forum? Can't have any cross-posting, I suppose.

  9. #108

    User Info Menu


  10. #109

    User Info Menu

    ...here we are again, so many people thinking he knows the absolute truth...

    Do not worry, this is absolute human. Repeated studies proove the majority of people think, they are above of the average. Do the math :-),( if you can. sure all of us can, because all of us is above the average understanding a simple statistic nonsense) The result is practically independent which skills were asked.

  11. #110

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    Hmmm, why can't we all just get along ... I know, maybe if we subdivided the forum to keep the warring factions apart?

    Let's see ... ok, how about if we have 3 sub forums?

    1. Straight Ahead - The Forum for Jazz guitar music that some people find boring, old hat, old fogey, mouldy old fig, conservative etc

    2. Sports Jazz - the Forum for the kinds of Jazz guitar that the Straight Ahead guys don't like very much because it's too fast, too loud and unmusical.

    3. Nerd Jazz (AKA Maths Jazz) - The Forum for the kinds of Jazz that the straight-aheaders and sports jazz folk don't like because it's too clever (as well as unmusical).


    Whaddya reckon?
    1) Polite forum
    2) Get over it.

  12. #111

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    This is why we can't have nice things. Opinions are inevitable here; necessary, even, here being a forum. Having a hissy fit because someone does not like a musician's style, technique or tone seems a waste of time and effort. Far better would be to counter the criticism with positive observations. Denigrating forum members as faceless keyboard warriors is unpleasant; they are members of this forum and deserve to be treated with respect. Famous jazz musicians have opinions but, since they are not members of this forum, we can say what we like about them within the bounds of taste and defamation. We can also say what we like about their music, so long as what we say makes sense.

    Louis Armstrong said bebop was Chinese music; he doubtless offended many bebop fans, and many more Chinese, but that hardly matters now. Wynton Marsalis said, 'Louis Armstrong is jazz. He represents what the music is all about,' a claim that is at least disputable, if not ridiculous. We are not obliged to respect these opinions. If you like bebop, go ahead and say what you think about Armstrong. If you dislike Wynton Marsalis, say so. If you think a guitarist is not very good, don't keep it to yourself. This is a forum. Your opinions are needed.
    Well put, L! I do think it's kinda cool that we can have a 4+ page thread on one person's playing ( an artist previously unknown to me*). I do wish we had a little more courtesy and restraint in expressing our diverse personal opinions, but still and all, this forum is a pretty civil place to exchange thoughts and feelings about our common interest, Jazz Guitar (and Jazz in general). We could do better, but we really could do a whole lot worse. It may be the Internet, but it's one of the nicer neighborhoods.

    * This covers a lot of territory!

  13. #112

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    ...here we are again, so many people thinking he knows the absolute truth...

    Do not worry, this is absolute human. Repeated studies proove the majority of people think, they are above of the average. Do the math :-),( if you can. sure all of us can, because all of us is above the average understanding a simple statistic nonsense) The result is practically independent which skills were asked.
    Well one very well regarded metric for judging a jazz musician is the esteem in which they are held by the professional jazz community. That’s about as objective as it gets. To be brutally honest that is the main thing I’ll focus on.

    So you may dislike the playing of some hot young players, but if that player is getting hired by top professionals it is important to note that your opinion is at odds with the wider jazz community. You may not care of course, but it is a point.

    I often feel this way fwiw, but when I do feel this way I think it’s better to look for what those musicians might see in a player who is not to your personal taste.

    (By the above metric I note that I remain a weirdo with a focusrite and not playing burning gigs with Blanchard etc)

    it’s not always simple; Ornette was a controversial figure who divided the community, and some guys may hate fusion etc but that’s another story; but you can usually tell within a sub community or whatever. I find it useful for focussing on my humility.

  14. #113

    User Info Menu

    I was not talking about disliking, instead of declaring unmusical, as absolute truth. Dislike is completely OK.

    ***

    Completely an other topic, but about the art community you wrote about, including both the artist, both the critics and maybe the impresarios... I always have the feeling, that if someone once get the spotlight, the his art's value gets climbing higher and higher until it became tabu to doubt in it. It is a self amplifying process, a positive feedback loop. Many factors contribute to this effect mainly snobbism but also the whish to belong to a privileged circle (I realize this is snobbism too) so correct it to a whish to be an "intellectual"

    I am not stating that admired 20th century composers, performers, jazz musicians, painters are not valuable, but probably they (or their impresarios), once had to "sold" the image their art. The less affected are maybe 20th century literature, probably this effect did not derail so easily the evaluation, because every single man can decide if the Magic Mountain makes sense to him or not, so not the community of the critics and other writers decide.
    Last edited by Gabor; 05-26-2022 at 03:20 PM.

  15. #114

    User Info Menu

    The problem is that jazz is changing.
    There are great old musicians and a new generation of musicians is growing.
    The audiences of jazz music are also different than before.
    The older listener has extensive experience due to his age.
    It does not necessarily have to accept what is new .
    It is all very complicated.

  16. #115

    User Info Menu

    In other news, our Prime Minister mentioned keyboard warriors in her Harvard Commencement address:

    "In my mind, when I read something especially horrific on my feed, I imagine it's written by a lone person, unacquainted with personal hygiene practices, dressed in a poorly fitted superhero costume - one that is baggy in all the wrong places.

    "Keyboard warrior or not though, it's still something that has been written by a human, and it's something that has been read by one too."

  17. #116

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    I was not talking about disliking, instead of declaring unmusical, as absolute truth. Dislike is completely OK.

    ***

    Completely an other topic, but about the art community you wrote about, including both the artist, both the critics and maybe the impresarios... I always have the feeling, that if someone once get the spotlight, the his art's value gets climbing higher and higher until it became tabu to doubt in it. It is a self amplifying process, a positive feedback loop. Many factors contribute to this effect mainly snobbism but also the whish to belong to a privileged circle (I realize this is snobbism too) so correct it to a whish to be an "intellectual"

    I am not stating that admired 20th century composers, performers, jazz musicians, painters are not valuable, but probably they (or their impresarios), once had to "sold" the image their art. The less affected are maybe 20th century literature, probably this effect did not derail so easily the evaluation, because every single man can decide if the Magic Mountain makes sense to him or not, so not the community of the critics and other writers decide.
    My experience in a former life as a visual artist is that nothing boosts the value of your work quite as much as being dead. A finite body of work is instantly more valuable when it can no longer be increased. I wish I was being snarky, but it is the actual case.

  18. #117

    User Info Menu

    I like Charles' playing, and if anything, this thread brought him to some new ears!

    The album he did with Tom Harrell is wonderful, and I dig this concert with Tom and Mark Turner! Enjoy (or not)!


  19. #118

    User Info Menu

    Another nice one! Thanks Marc.

    I'm grateful to the forum for giving me some things I haven't heard before.
    I enjoy his playing and I think his accompaniment is interesting and on it. I need to work on mine.

    Some light-hearted comments about Charles, if I may:
    1) It may seem like it to us, but he's not that young at 41.
    2) He's not that fast.
    3) I think he could use some work on his jazz faces, but he looks right at home with Tom on that stage.

    :) :) :) :) :)

  20. #119

    User Info Menu

    One more in regards to the first clip and the sound: playing outdoors in broad daylight to a small crowd is my idea of a very tough gig. I always hated those, even with an enthusiastic audience.

  21. #120

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft
    One more in regards to the first clip and the sound: playing outdoors in broad daylight to a small crowd is my idea of a very tough gig. I always hated those, even with an enthusiastic audience.
    Ah, THAT's what Sonny Rollins was training himself for those nights on the bridge.

  22. #121

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    The problem is that jazz is changing.
    There are great old musicians and a new generation of musicians is growing.
    The audiences of jazz music are also different than before.
    The older listener has extensive experience due to his age.
    It does not necessarily have to accept what is new .
    It is all very complicated.
    The alternative to change is death.

    i would rather choose the first.

  23. #122

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    The alternative to change is death.

    i would rather choose the first.
    I wonder what your jazz comments will be at the age of 70.

  24. #123

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Well one very well regarded metric for judging a jazz musician is the esteem in which they are held by the professional jazz community. That’s about as objective as it gets. To be brutally honest that is the main thing I’ll focus on.

    So you may dislike the playing of some hot young players, but if that player is getting hired by top professionals it is important to note that your opinion is at odds with the wider jazz community. You may not care of course, but it is a point.

    I often feel this way fwiw, but when I do feel this way I think it’s better to look for what those musicians might see in a player who is not to your personal taste.

    (By the above metric I note that I remain a weirdo with a focusrite and not playing burning gigs with Blanchard etc)

    it’s not always simple; Ornette was a controversial figure who divided the community, and some guys may hate fusion etc but that’s another story; but you can usually tell within a sub community or whatever. I find it useful for focussing on my humility.
    I am not sure I totally agree. Obviously, all of these cats can play at Altura's level. But I imagine some of who plays with who boils down to social connections and similar aesthetics.

    I'm not a pro and can hardly play so my opinion probably doesn't matter, but you're a bad man on the guitar, IMO, but maybe you just run in different social circles then some of these more well known players.

  25. #124

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by charlieparker
    I am not sure I totally agree. Obviously, all of these cats can play at Altura's level. But I imagine some of who plays with who boils down to social connections and similar aesthetics.

    I'm not a pro and can hardly play so my opinion probably doesn't matter, but you're a bad man on the guitar, IMO, but maybe you just run in different social circles then some of these more well known players.
    That's very kind. Networking definitely plays a part in the career, as does personality. And there are certainly those who have a strong career in music as much due to their soft skills (which are not to underrated) as much as their playing. Metheny had both! But these guys tend to be leaders, or personalities so to speak.

    But as a sideman Charles is working with some of the best names in jazz today; that tells a story.

  26. #125

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft
    One more in regards to the first clip and the sound: playing outdoors in broad daylight to a small crowd is my idea of a very tough gig. I always hated those, even with an enthusiastic audience.
    Outdoor gigs are the pits - unless there is a proper band shell, and a good soundperson. "Lost on the wind" usually covers it. Among the many terrible gigs outdoors, one early one stands out. Our newly-minted seven piece Grateful Dead-like collaboration was booked at something or other. The stage was a flatbed trailer, there were no monitors, and there was no sound check. Spread out over ten or twelve yards, the eye-to-eye intimacy of our farmhouse practices was lost and we basically just tried to synch with the drummer and hope for the best. Not our finest hour. Have you paid your dues? "Yes Sir, the check is in the mail."