The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    This week's click bait!


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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Whass harnomic minor?

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Whass harnomic minor?
    It is the fourth mode of Phrygian dominant.

  5. #4

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    Ella knew how to use this scale :




    according to me it's a common "mother scale" for jazz and usefull.

  6. #5

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    I don't care how old fashioned it sounds, I will always use PD licks on V chords that resolve to a minor, and nobody's gonna stop me!

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I don't care how old fashioned it sounds, I will always use PD licks on V chords that resolve to a minor, and nobody's gonna stop me!
    the jazz police are coming

  8. #7

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    Great video and I esp. appreciate the call out for the Autumn Leaves minor key center thing. Although all I could think about was your flip-flop on "Mickey Mouse guitars"! What's the story there? You saved me $3k on an Ibanez Scofield but maybe I should buy one after all...

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomems
    Great video and I esp. appreciate the call out for the Autumn Leaves minor key center thing. Although all I could think about was your flip-flop on "Mickey Mouse guitars"! What's the story there? You saved me $3k on an Ibanez Scofield but maybe I should buy one after all...
    oh that was some unrelated person called ‘christianm77’ nothing to do with me ;-)

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Quote Originally Posted by mr beaumont
    I don't care how old fashioned it sounds, I will always use PD licks on V chords that resolve to a minor, and nobody's gonna stop me!

    the jazz police are coming
    Are they called "PD licks" because they summon the Police Department of Jazz?

  11. #10

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    Didn't see the video but I always use the Harmonic Minor. It seems to not be the preferred way of dealing with iiø-V but that's what I use 99% of the time. No one hears the harmonic minor scale though when I do.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by orri
    Are they called "PD licks" because they summon the Police Department of Jazz?
    In New Zealand, PD means preventative detention, an indeterminate sentence to prevent the offender committing further serious crimes.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    Didn't see the video but I always use the Harmonic Minor. It seems to not be the preferred way of dealing with iiø-V but that's what I use 99% of the time. No one hears the harmonic minor scale though when I do.
    Thats a really great point…. I think it’s the same for me?

    One thing I learned from Barry is that the way you model things in your mind may not be obvious from what you actually play. I think music analysis is really stymied by this; it’s guess work to a greater or lesser extent.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    In New Zealand, PD means preventative detention, an indeterminate sentence to prevent the offender committing further serious crimes.
    Cool, so long as you guys haven’t gone full Minority Report

  15. #14
    How to use the harmonic minor in jazz? Sparingly. It’s not really a jazz sound. It comes out of European and Middle Eastern folk traditions. In it’s pure form it sounds contrived in a jazz context due to a characteristic large intervalic leap. Jazz is an American art form, and while borrowing European harmonic traditions, it is largely based on African rhythms and blues. Sure you can find examples of it occurring in jazz (Nature Boy etc), but it is not as common as, and often mistaken for, its cousin the melodic minor.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Saumarez
    How to use the harmonic minor in jazz? Sparingly. It’s not really a jazz sound. It comes out of European and Middle Eastern folk traditions. In it’s pure form it sounds contrived in a jazz context due to a characteristic large intervalic leap. Jazz is an American art form, and while borrowing European harmonic traditions, it is largely based on African rhythms and blues. Sure you can find examples of it occurring in jazz (Nature Boy etc), but it is not as common as, and often mistaken for, its cousin the melodic minor.
    Well I don’t know what to say. Dogmatic statements like this are just, not wrong, just dogmatic. As I said I use it ALL the time. I doubt you will ever hear as harmonic minor because it doesn’t sound like it in the context of the music. It’s just a tool. One of many, that has its place. I rarely find the melodic minor and harmonic minor interchangeable.


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    Last edited by henryrobinett; 05-06-2022 at 02:52 PM.

  17. #16

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    I don't think Victor Suamarez is in contradiction with Christian's video. He is talking about the "pure sound of harmonic minor". A lot of Christian's video is about how to play the harmonic minor while avoiding making it sound like the "harmonic minor scale".

    I think the scale under the discussion in this thread is not the harmonic minor scale as the context is not tonic minor but dominant. It's the phrygian dominant scale which doesn't sound like the harmonic minor scale anyway. Not anymore than phrygian minor lines sound like major lines.

  18. #17

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    OK. Apologies. I haven't watched the video. My bad. Interestingly I recently post me playing "Reincarnation of a Lovebird" which has harmonic minor all over it. I'll keep my mouth shut from here on out again. LOL.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    OK. Apologies. I haven't watched the video. My bad. Interestingly I recently post me playing "Reincarnation of a Lovebird" which has harmonic minor all over it. I'll keep my mouth shut from here on out again. LOL.
    I was under the impression that you also weren't after the "sound" of harmonic minor but used it more as a note collection over minor type dominants (based on your previous comment). No?

  20. #19

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    I have no problem with it sounding like or not sounding like HM. It just doesn’t. I’m not trying to hide it. Lol. I’m just saying that some people knock it because it sounds like harmonic minor. My experience is when you play it in bebop or whatever it doesn’t identify itself as HM like say the whole tone does. You just don’t hear it. Not like Gypsy Jazz or speed metal.


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  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    I have no problem with it sounding like or not sounding like HM. It just doesn’t. I’m not trying to hide it. Lol. I’m just saying that some people knock it because it sounds like harmonic minor. My experience is when you play it in bebop or whatever it doesn’t identify itself as HM like say the whole tone does. You just don’t hear it. Not like Gypsy Jazz or speed metal.


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    Right, HM doesn't have to sound like I'm burning on "Dark Eyes."

    But it could

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Right, HM doesn't have to sound like I'm burning on "Dark Eyes."

    But it could
    we called this "les yeux noirs" in France !

  23. #22

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    C HM is C D Eb F G Ab B C.

    Started on the 5th, it's G Ab B C D Eb F G Ab.

    EDIT: Erroneous statement pointed out by Christian, removed.

    Now, consider G7b9b13. G B D F Ab Eb. Six notes. All but C, which is the fourth, and sometimes called an avoid note on a G7.
    -
    So, HM, is pretty much playing a G7b9b13 arp over the G7. You get the chord tones of G7 and two extensions.

    You can achieve a similar sound by playing an Ab minor triad. Or, if you want to get fancier, a Db13.

    Using an Abm triad (with an added 9) also gets the altered sound, which is based on G Ab Bb B Db Eb F. No avoid note (if you buy into that idea).

    But, back to HM. Might it be better to think about the G7b9b13 arp than the full HM scale -- considering that the C may be the worst sounding note?

    In looking at some articles on the internet, the HM scale is, apparently, most commonly applied in a iim7b5 - V7b9b13 - i minor situation.
    Or, a Vb9 as the dominant. The arp will work in those situations.
    Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 05-06-2022 at 08:46 PM.

  24. #23

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    Tbh a lot of points people are making here are somewhat addressed in the vid.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Tbh a lot of points people are making here are somewhat addressed in the vid.
    Lol. Well I’m watching the video now. Good stuff Christian.


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  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    C HM is C D Eb F G Ab B C.

    Started on the 5th, it's G Ab B C D Eb F G Ab.

    Aside: It's always struck me as odd that phrygian dominant has two notes different than phrygian. The names sound like it would be just one, like 7 to b7.
    eh?

    phrygian = 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
    Phrygian dominant = 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 b7

    That’s one note difference - b3 to 3

    Am I going mental?

    Time for bed.