The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I am in the process of transcribing My Old Flame by Tal Farlow.


    For chords it is pretty easy to get the top and bottom notes but sometimes the middle notes are pretty muddy for me.

    For imstance at 7 seconds in I transcribed the following three chords,

    Bb Ab Db Eb
    Eb G Db Eb
    A G C Eb

    However, on relistening I changed the last chord to,

    A D F# Db Eb.

    Both sounded fine to my ear in that context.

    Do other people struggle to hear the inner voices when transcribing?

    And is it important to get it right or is there freedom in the kind of substitution, in this case a Dmaj7 for A-7b5?
    Last edited by charlieparker; 03-08-2022 at 02:25 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I listened the recording, and maybe the problem is in me, it sounds a bit fuzzy for me, (trying to be polite) giving a bad work benefit ratio...

  4. #3

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    Probably the hardest thing to hear. Guitar's general tone and the way it's recorded on old records doesn't help much either!

    Re: important to get it right...I suppose only if you want to play it exactly that way. If it inspires you to figure something else out, it was still worth the while.

    Occasionally I'll hear something and I just HAVE to learn it "right."

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Probably the hardest thing to hear. Guitar's general tone and the way it's recorded on old records doesn't help much either!

    Re: important to get it right...I suppose only if you want to play it exactly that way. If it inspires you to figure something else out, it was still worth the while.

    Occasionally I'll hear something and I just HAVE to learn it "right."
    Yeah, I was just wondering if I should just use a chart or theory to guide me in this situation or if it's really as simple as if it sounds ok it is.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieparker
    Yeah, I was just wondering if I should just use a chart or theory to guide me in this situation or if it's really as simple as if it sounds ok it is.
    It doesn't hurt...if you actually learn the tune first using your ear for the melody and maybe a lead sheet for the basic chords, what you're hearing there can make a lot more sense...

    For example, the bar that starts there, around 7 seconds, is Bb- to Eb7 (assuming the tune is in F, my ears aren't good enough to discern and I don't have an instrument with me to check)

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieparker
    I am in the process of transcribing My Old Flame by Tal Farlow.


    For chords it is pretty easy to get the top and bottom notes but sometimes the middle notes are pretty muddy for me.

    For imstance at 7 seconds in I transcribed the following three chords,

    Bb Ab Db Eb
    Eb G Db Eb
    A G C Eb

    However, on relistening I changed the last chord to,

    A D F# Db Eb.

    Both sounded fine to my ear in that context.

    Do other people struggle to hear the inner voices when transcribing?

    And is it important to get it right or is there freedom in the kind of substitution, in this case a Dmaj7 for A-7b5?
    I have listened to it and I am pretty sure your first guess (Am7b5) was correct. Your second guess sounds very wrong to me (and does not make much sense musically, to me).

    The next chord sounds like D7b9 (= D F# C Eb), although he immediately sounds the C melody note after the chord. (There is a nasty artefact at this point which doesn't help, sounds like someone has overdone the noise reduction).

    These are quite standard chords and progression in the song's key of G (Bbm11, Eb7, Am7b5, D7b9).

    I don't really have any advice on how to do this sort of thing, you just have to struggle and train your ears by listening really hard for those inner notes. Takes a long time.

    But I think it does help to be familiar with the usual chord voicings and progressions, it's what those guys used to play most of the time.

  8. #7

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    By the way those 4 chords are a nice example of keeping a common tone (Eb in this case) on top of the chords, while changing the harmonies underneath. Good voice-leading.

    I was recently watching some Joe Pass and Bruce Forman lesson videos and they both talked about this a lot.

  9. #8

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    One thing Tal taught me: Don't take anything he plays literally. His method of teaching was to play something and have me ask; stop him and ask on the spot. I had about a half a bar to maybe a bar before he'd say "Sorry, I don't remember what I did".
    If I played something that worked, even if it wasn't what he played, he'd say "Yeah, that's right. That's nice."
    First I thought he was humouring me, because his ears were so good, he could catch anything I was doing, but later I realized that what was important to him was the flow, sound and function of what I was playing, single line or chordal, that he considered the correct note choice.

    He could hear it. He could play it. He couldn't repeat nor explain it after a certain point.

    That probably doesn't help, except to know what he seemed to consider important.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieparker
    I am in the process of transcribing My Old Flame by Tal Farlow.


    For chords it is pretty easy to get the top and bottom notes but sometimes the middle notes are pretty muddy for me.

    For imstance at 7 seconds in I transcribed the following three chords,

    Bb Ab Db Eb
    Eb G Db Eb
    A G C Eb

    However, on relistening I changed the last chord to,

    A D F# Db Eb.

    Both sounded fine to my ear in that context.

    Do other people struggle to hear the inner voices when transcribing?

    And is it important to get it right or is there freedom in the kind of substitution, in this case a Dmaj7 for A-7b5?
    Sounded like Bb Ab Db Eb, then, ? G Db Eb where "?" could be an Eb, Bb or A - I can't hear it on the equipment I'm using.

    Then Am7b5 going to D7b9, but I also hear a sour sound with the D7b9. Not sure if that's a glitch or a mistake. It doesn't sound like Tal intended it.

  11. #10

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    To transcribe it, I would use this clip, it has much clearer sound.