The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    And the skill is transferable between instruments. My wife started playing reed instruments when she was in grade school, was in marching band in high school, later learned a little piano, a little banjo, etc. She took on New Orleans style jazz on the clarinet for a few years about a decade ago. A year or two ago she decided she wanted to play Irish music on the mandolin, bought a mandolin and within two weeks was sight reading pretty proficiently on the instrument. A year later she reads about 1000 times better than I do on the guitar after 40 years.
    Last edited by Cunamara; 05-11-2022 at 06:59 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    I would say from personal experience the thing to aim for is that reading gets fun, this is certainly not true at first but stick with it. The point comes when you are able to pick up a piece of music and say ‘wonder what this sounds like?’ then have a go at playing it, however imperfectly.

    Not all reading is high-pressure under the spotlight stuff. Actually it can be a joy, and the more you do it the more this is true. Of course by doing this you’ll also become a better reader too. It’s a virtuous circle.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanAllen
    Right now I'm looking at getting Modern Method for Guitar Vol 1. it seems to come up as often as the Mickey Baker book on the forum.
    Another good book is the Melodic Rhythms by Leavitt https://berkleepress.com/guitar/melo...ms-for-guitar/

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    The point comes when you are able to pick up a piece of music and say ‘wonder what this sounds like?’ then have a go at playing it, however imperfectly.
    That brings back memories of living in NY during the 70's. Schirmers was a music store that had filing cabinets filled with all sorts of music. I would go in and browse through the folders... Bach lute suites, German published collections of lute music, Dowland, Brower, Barrios, Villa Lobos. I'd find something that looked like I could manage it (not too many ledger lines!) and read it through, and think "On WOW! I have GOT to learn this!" ' would walk out with a bag of scores. I would say that was even more exciting than hanging out on 48th street (music row) because this was actually something I could have in my hands for twenty bucks.
    There was also a store called Charles Colin publishers. I found so many books on approaches to playing jazz, Oliver Nelson, Johnny Smith, Micky Baker. Those books opened up more for me than the four years I spent in music school because the resources were on tap when I was ready to take them.
    For me, being able to read opened the musical minds of so many teachers through history, and it cost nothing to learn to read and pennies to keep on learning. And the day I discovered the music library at Lincoln Center... treasure trove for free!

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    I'd find something that looked like I could manage it (not too many ledger lines!) and read it through, and think "On WOW! I have GOT to learn this!" ' would walk out with a bag of scores.
    Same here (but for violin). Those stores were also a great place for meeting (pro) musicians IRL. I still regret not having taken Julien Coco up on his offer to hang out and jam together - I'd probably not be where I am today (= being able to read ONLY "normal" scores). I just didn't know back then that there was another way to make music; theory was the kind of thing if you really wanted to know (maybe) why a composition sounded so good ...

    No idea how much money went into all my copies, but a few years back I was happy to get about 100 bucks for the legal and reusable ones, in one of the stores where I used to go. I think I was even more happy to realise they still existed, 30+ years later.

  7. #56

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    jbn… wasn’t Schirmers next to a Horn and Hardart? Seem to recall that was a double stop for ms jk-to-be and I. (She teaching piano at the time.) Did you do Patelson’s also? Way smaller than Schirmers, but OMG what an off the wall classical selection.
    Last edited by jazzkritter; 05-11-2022 at 09:23 AM. Reason: Misstype

  8. #57

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    during the 70's. Schirmers was a music store
    I bought the Slonimsky Thesaurus there in the early 70's.

  9. #58

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    Reading on guitar is difficult! A good approach is to just spend a few minutes a day working on it, instead of getting frustrated by trying to do it fast and putting in hours. This way it's much easier, and in a few months you can read good enough! Also the agostini rhythm books are great, focusing on just rhythmic studies. 5 minutes each, melodic and rhythmic reading and job is done!

    Another thing i still enjoy, is to steer away from guitar reading books, because most of them can be boring musically speaking. Instead, i read violin, flute, and cello classical pieces, they are much more fun to play!

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter
    Another thing i still enjoy, is to steer away from guitar reading books, because most of them can be boring musically speaking. Instead, i read violin, flute, and cello classical pieces, they are much more fun to play!
    If reading can be combined with ear training, then "reading the sound" rather than the notes makes it smoother. I found that, like you, reading for other instruments can be a broader experience that teaches you the fingerboard at the same time. Take a phrase, play it in all possible positions and your hand learns to find the sound.
    I found flute and oboe method books and etudes really excellent in this way.
    And for opening up my ears, playing the guitar to Lars Eklund's Modus Novus will make you bold and confident in all tonalities in addition to bringing your ear to the next level.
    Students find that learning to read is more difficult on your own, because playing without reading is SO much easier. But playing in a group or even with a teacher's guidance really speeds the process up, brings the ear and the interactive aspect to the fore. Or in my experience anyway.

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzkritter
    jbn… wasn’t Schirmers next to a Horn and Hardart? Seem to recall that was a double stop for ms jk-to-be and I. (She teaching piano at the time.) Did you do Patelson’s also? Way smaller than Schirmers, but OMG what an off the wall classical selection.
    I LOVED the automat!!!! Yeah it was right there. Buy music, eat in a time machine. Now I miss those days!
    It was always a must-go-to to visit Rizzoli's. Great vibe, the old book stores.

  12. #61

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    Funny, since guitar isn't my first instrument, I hate reading tab. Kind of reminds me of the piano roll notation in Cakewalk (midi sequencer program).

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzkritter
    jbn… wasn’t Schirmers next to a Horn and Hardart? Seem to recall that was a double stop for ms jk-to-be and I. (She teaching piano at the time.) Did you do Patelson’s also? Way smaller than Schirmers, but OMG what an off the wall classical selection.
    And don't forget Frank Music – a great place for "classical" sheet music.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by timmer
    Funny, since guitar isn't my first instrument, I hate reading tab. Kind of reminds me of the piano roll notation in Cakewalk (midi sequencer program).
    I don't bother with tab at all. I don't even see the point in it.

  15. #64

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    +1 on Mel Bay and on the Colin/Bower books. You will get bored with MB very quickly - the exercises are so simplistic as to be dull - but crawling before you walk and walking before you run is kind of the point. You'll move on quickly enough.

    But I can't believe almost nobody has recommended lessons! I learned to read on trumpet as a kid - there was a Saturday AM marching band program in my grammar school; all the trumpets had a half-hour lesson on Sat AM before the main band rehearsal that went from 10 am till noon. I practiced a half-hour a day during the week. I found it pretty easy to learn to read that way. I was reading well enough to play in the band within months, and I kept it up for 2 or 3 years.

    Sadly, the band program fell on some hard times and was not offered for my last couple of years of grammar school.

    About two years later, I was in high school, playing bass by ear, and wanting to join the jazz band, which required me to read. I tried picking up the Mel Bay book on my own and trying to re-learn reading that way. I was absolutely stumped on reading rhythms. I just could not decipher standard notation again... I went to a local guitar teacher and he had me back on my feet in no time. I just needed a little help remembering how to map the squiggles on the page to durations, and then I had to practice it a bit.

    So... I would REALLY recommend ANY form of interactive instruction for learning to read. It can be very difficult to stare at the page and figure out something that often is grasped quite easily when you are SHOWN. And corrected in real time when you make a mistake - especially with reading rhythm. That sort of self-correction is difficult if not impossible. It is much easier when you have a teacher who can correct you in the moment and prevent you from internalizing bad habits.

    The lessons can be cheap group lessons or private. And you don't have to keep them up forever. But it sounds like you have been struggling on your own for a long time. Betcha that a little help will make all the difference.

    Good luck,

    SJ

  16. #65

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    Get 3x5 cards. Make flash cards by drawing a whole note on a staff on one side and the answer (note name) on the other. Start with 7 cards, one for each white key on a piano.

    Shuffle the cards. Look at a note. Say the name of the note. Check the answer on the back. Sing the note. Play the note on a keyboard. Success? Try again. It is a game, like Wordle or Sudoku. If it gives you a headache, take a break. You can do this.

    When you get this down, add the other 5 notes like Bb. Later on add more cards like A#. Add cards higher and lower on the treble clef.

  17. #66

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    Many good answers - I'll just add my own 2 cents.

    1) Reading something slowly and bit by bit is useful but you need to be reading stuff that you can get off the page relatively easily as well. Sounds like this was already recommended through the books, which are all built around that concept.

    Reading isn't only about seeing a note and knowing what it is. It's also about recognizing intervals and phrases. Kinda like reading words versus reading letter by letter. Reading something that can come out after a 3rd or 4th attempt (or before you know it, even 1st) rather than something that'll take you hours helps train this, and allows you to feel the bigger picture of reading music, rather than micro analysing. Though of course it's a process one has to go through, and there is no shame in that.

    2) One of the best tips I received from a teacher when I was learning to read - its kinda like driving , you need to learn to look ahead/where you are going, not where you are. Helped me a lot and I still have to remind myself of that when I don't read for a while and start getting rusty.

    Good luck! I am sure you'll reap a lot of reward from spending some time on this - and it will open up a huge world of resources for you.

  18. #67

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    Front Matter

    try this. And go very slowly through the first few chapters.

    reading music is a universal language. Forget about what instrument at first- just get a grasp of the basic rules.

    The guitar is like trying to play 6 piano registers each offset but a 4th or in one case a third. Too much to also try figure out. That’s like trying to orate a speech while trying to learn a language at the same time!

    If it helps find a basic keyboard to help you audibly link the concepts at a base level (major 3rd vs a minor 3rd)

    good luck!

  19. #68

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    I understand that the best way to learn to play in what I think of as "the other way" (i.e. not off scores) is to play with helpful others. Reading is something you typically learn in a more classroom-like setting, but joining a choir might be an equivalent of the traditional garage band guitar school You might also find basic music theory or solfège classes where adults are welcome in your neck of the woods. Both would allow you to focus on reading the notes & instructions without having to bother about playing an instrument (I'm *guessing* that singing is easier in that aspect, once you know how to - I simply cannot so maybe I'm completely wrong).
    Last edited by RJVB; 05-14-2022 at 08:19 AM.

  20. #69

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    Compared to other instruments, guitar players are notoriously bad readers, but make up for it by offering endless advice on learning how to read.

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by unknownguitarplayer
    Compared to other instruments, non-classical guitar players are notoriously bad readers
    T,FTFY.

    (non exclusively btw; I think most jazz guitarists also know how to read just fine.)

  22. #71

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    There is a very logical reason this is probably the case. Young guitarists are taught cowboy chords and tab.

    Reading staves is more often than not a late afterthought? To which there are endless ways to discover a best way later on.

    I don’t know of any other western instrument where a whole simplified notation structure was created.
    Even percussion is on a stave.

    Classical guitarists learn by a different path perhaps.

  23. #72

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    TAB is a perfectly rational response to the peculiarities of our instrument:

    "The middle C is located on the twentieth fret of the 6th string, the fifteenth fret of the 5th string, the tenth fret of the 4th string, the fifth fret of the 3rd string, and the first fret of the 2nd string."

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    [FONT=book antiqua]TAB is a perfectly rational response to the peculiarities of our instrument:
    So why isn't tab notation used for violin, cello etc? (Not even for viola, I'm tempted to add ).

    There's a whole body of tablature (of the earlier[?]) literature for lute (which is different from guitar tabs, IIRC).

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by sys
    Reading isn't only about seeing a note and knowing what it is. It's also about recognizing intervals and phrases. Kinda like reading words versus reading letter by letter.
    A big +1 on this. Learning a bit of the theory behind the construction of chords and keys will help you to identify arpeggios/collections of notes that are derived from a chord or a key:

    - When you see consecutive notes that are only on lines or consecutive notes that are only on spaces, that's a hint that they are the notes of a chord built in thirds. You can easily map those groups to fingering patterns that you have learned for the corresponding arpeggios.

    - When you see accidentals on a sheet that uses key signatures, that's a hint that the note is out-of-key and therefore not under the finger patterns that you learned for scales that are in-key. You'll use a different finger or briefly shift hand position to play the out-of-key note.

    Be aware that some lead sheets may not bother with key signatures, instead notating every accidental, but when you do see a key signature, it simplifies reading by allowing you to identify out-of-key notes easily.

    HTH

    SJ

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    So why isn't tab notation used for violin, cello etc? (Not even for viola, I'm tempted to add ).

    There's a whole body of tablature (of the earlier[?]) literature for lute (which is different from guitar tabs, IIRC).

    Because those instruments are not played by teenagers in rock bands. Violin tabs in fact are out there, for folkies and others who want to play without reading. We have have musical traditions in which students learn music, and those in which they learn songs. Classical and jazz are in the first category, folk and rock in the second. Teenagers who take up rock guitar want to play the songs they know. Tablature is a simple method for showing them where to put their fingers on the fretboard.

    Of course, it could be argued that they will never be able to pick up a score and play it, that they are deprived of the richness of theory, and they will be forever confined to simple chords and arpeggios. But they can rock. Besides, when rock musicians learn too much, they often turn a simple and effective music form into something awkward and pretentious.