The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I'm trying to learn this tune and measures 2, 3, and 4 I am having trouble thinking about from a functional harmony point of view.

    Basically, as I understand it measure 2, F-7 Bb7 is a backdoor dominant progression resolving to C in measure 3. However, in the second half of measure 3, we see a Bb7 leading to the A7 in measure for, so we get | C7 Bb7 | A7|.

    I want to think of Bb7 as a tritone sub for E7. However, the I7 - bVII7 - VI7 thing sounds a bit odd to me.

    Is this common in jazz progressions? Is there another way to think about or hear this?

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  3. #2

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    Bebop harmony is just kinda odd and clanky at times. It has a weird clanky beauty to it haha. Get your ear around it or reharm it to suit your taste I guess.

  4. #3

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    Well one way is to consider the notes of the melody in bars 2,3 and 4, they give you some useful ideas to work with. There’s a sort of descending line in there, you could embellish and turn that into all sorts of phrases.

    That Bb7 could be a tritone sub as you say, or I just tend to think of it as a chromatic approach to the A7. Comes to the same thing really.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieparker
    However, the I7 - bVII7 - VI7 thing sounds a bit odd to me.

    Is this common in jazz progressions? Is there another way to think about or hear this?
    This often occurs in the turnaround in the last 2 bars of a jazz blues progression (usually in bar 11).

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieparker
    I'm trying to learn this tune and measures 2, 3, and 4 I am having trouble thinking about from a functional harmony point of view.

    Basically, as I understand it measure 2, F-7 Bb7 is a backdoor dominant progression resolving to C in measure 3. However, in the second half of measure 3, we see a Bb7 leading to the A7 in measure for, so we get | C7 Bb7 | A7|.

    I want to think of Bb7 as a tritone sub for E7. However, the I7 - bVII7 - VI7 thing sounds a bit odd to me.

    Is this common in jazz progressions? Is there another way to think about or hear this?
    Its a chromatic walk down to chord VI

    Dixieland style tunes would go
    C7 / B7 Bb7 | A7

    its a bit more bop to go
    C7 / / Bb7 | A7

    C7 / Bb7 / | A7

    you can put this into any 1625 type turnaround if you have time.

    So it’s a passing chord, up to you if you want to express in your line or not. TBH I often ignore it.

    Another example is Days of Wine and Roses as presented in the Real Book which has that bVII7 chord lasting for a whole bar. However, Mancini didn’t write it that way, and not everyone plays it.

    You can also see this chord as a sub for Em7b5; which might seem weird but it works. Barry Harris taught this. So you can just play a minor ii V I into the Dm chord. Very bop.

  7. #6

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    Also the beginning of Doxy is very similar (shown here in the key of C).

    Yardbird Suite Analysis-80612401-628c-403e-a3c4-534c18974678-jpeg

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    Also the beginning of Doxy is very similar (shown here in the key of C).

    Yardbird Suite Analysis-80612401-628c-403e-a3c4-534c18974678-jpeg
    Doxy is pastiching that old school trad thing

    Long walk downs (one chord a bar) can be found in tunes like Rosetta and Remember.

    As a general rule of thumb for soloing and comping is it’s on beat 3 it can be treated loosely or ignored. Something that lasts a whole bar usually demands a bit more respect. But this is only a rule of thumb.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieparker
    measures 2, 3, and 4
    Short version:

    The Bb7 is just a passing chord to make going from the I to the VI7 more fun, that's all.

    The Fm7/Bb7, as you say, is the backdoor sub for Dm7/G7, probably just more interesting than playing boring old Dm7/G7!

    All standard moves in jazz tunes.

  10. #9
    Thanks for all the great feedback. I like the 'ignore' idea.

  11. #10

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    haha yeah, another option is to just ignore the whole lot and do a Cecil Taylor on it.

  12. #11

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    The natural target for the backdoor dominant is the vi chord (or the relative minor). After all backdoor dominant is just the tri-tone of the dominant of the relative minor (as the OP said). The reason backdoor dominant can go to I chord is vi min7 = I maj 6.

    Backdoor going to a some sort of VI happens in a lot of tunes. Days of Wine and Roses or Joy Spring to name a couple. In some cases this progression is a bit disguised by the use of the minors of the dominants (usually in split bar contexts but can also be one bar each):
    bVII7 becomes iv - bVII7 (or just iv)
    VI7 becomes iii-bIII7 (Tritone) or iii-VI7

    These substitutions can create smooth bass movements.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 01-08-2022 at 11:38 AM.

  13. #12

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    Tal Farlow's version of Yardbird Suite from the mid '50s has a good little arranger's twist, where his trio plays the head in copy key C, but then play the solos on the changes transposed up a fourth to F, then modulate back to the copy key C for the out head. It's a simple device but not so common (can anyone link this idea to any other tunes from the early 50s?) It adds extra energy to the solos - and after the bass solo - as if they needed any more!
    There's certainly some similarity in the changes to Earl Hines' 'Rosetta', plus a few differences. These differences are analysed in Henry Martin's book 'Charlie Parker, Composer'. Interestingly, Martin describes how an early 1940s version of 'Yardbird Suite' was played with Jay McShann and had a lyric ('What Price Love?' or 'The Price on Love') also written by Charlie Parker. Additionally, he points out that the 1948 published songbook version of 'Yardbird Suite' was in Db (in 'Charlie Parker's Be Bop for Alto Sax: Four Solos with Piano Accompaniment').



    all the best
    MW

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Wright
    Tal Farlow's version of Yardbird Suite from the mid '50s has a good little arranger's twist, where his trio plays the head in copy key C, but then play the solos on the changes transposed up a fourth to F, then modulate back to the copy key C for the out head. It's a simple device but not so common (can anyone link this idea to any other tunes from the early 50s?) It adds extra energy to the solos - and after the bass solo - as if they needed any more!
    There's certainly some similarity in the changes to Earl Hines' 'Rosetta', plus a few differences. These differences are analysed in Henry Martin's book 'Charlie Parker, Composer'. Interestingly, Martin describes how an early 1940s version of 'Yardbird Suite' was played with Jay McShann and had a lyric ('What Price Love?' or 'The Price on Love') also written by Charlie Parker. Additionally, he points out that the 1948 published songbook version of 'Yardbird Suite' was in Db (in 'Charlie Parker's Be Bop for Alto Sax: Four Solos with Piano Accompaniment').



    all the best
    MW
    Tal tears it up on that track. He's currently my favorite jazz guitarist. There's something magical about his playing. I plan to try and transcribe some of that as part of learning the song.