Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Posts 51 to 65 of 65
  1. #51

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by joelf
    I guess they do---and so what?

    No one needs $5 words and 'systems' to play; compose; sing---whatever. Instead ask someone who knows more than you; digest; become an autodidact lifelong learner; trust your ears and heart.

    It's CHEAPER too!...
    Thats why it became necessary to invent forms of jazz that DO require $5 words and systems to play… and make sure this became established as the future sound of jazz…

    Meanwhile some kids in SE London start selling Afrobeat inspired groove jazz to a wide audience (including American) and all the those jazzers get VERY snotty about it… oh man, the salt…

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller

    Meanwhile some kids in SE London start selling Afrobeat inspired groove jazz to a wide audience (including American) and all the those jazzers get VERY snotty about it… oh man, the salt…

    There was a time, where music also was about the audience and making their lives happier

  4. #53

    User Info Menu

    I guess first we should define what is a system of theory? For me it was taking what worked for me and applying it to my particular style. When I was at Berklee you used the Levett Books in the beginning (personally I think they're good) but then you were free to follow your own path. I had plenty of friends who studied with Mick Goodrick and Charlie Banakas privately. I chose classical guitar because it wasn't offered at NEC at the time. Ironically the present chair of the guitar department is a classical guitarist. (sorry for the spelling Charlie and all, it's been awhile rip).
    As an addendum, I was a starving kid with little funds but determined. After the first two semesters I was given scholarship money. I Thank Berklee for that every day.

  5. #54

    User Info Menu

    This is a bit silly.

    Traditionally (and still):
    • Music majors take four semesters of theory and harmony, as freshman and sophomores.
    • 3 credit hours, M-W-F
    • Weekly part writing exercises for harmony, PLUS - ear training, sight singing, rhythmic training (hand clapping and vocal expression "dugga-dugga-dugga")
    • There is a freshman harmony/theory texbook and there is a sophomore textbook. The good ones last for decades. The sight singing and rhythm books are separate.


    Jazz studies programs - UNT for example - add an additional two semesters of jazz harmony for jazz studies majors. They use Dan Haerle's book - "The Jazz Language". Other schools copied/copy this model. So, that covers that.


    Berklee? Well, it's not a "traditional/classical" school so they are left with writing their own texts (like Dan Haerle did).

    Former Berklee teacher Barry Nettles authored four semesters. The sheets are scanned and findable on the internet. (Great stuff, but no longer used at Berklee).

    There is a post above mentioning a harmony book from Berklee press, for jazz. It's good. You can also look at Berklee Online if you want to see what they teach these days - and - take the classes, like I did. It's not identical to the on campus classes, but it's close enough.

    ANY subject has to use consistent theories, conceptual models, and terminology. The alternative is like the Tower of Babel. (that would be a bad thing)

  6. #55

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    There was a time, where music also was about the audience and making their lives happier
    You just don’t get it do you? :-)

  7. #56

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jaco
    I guess first we should define what is a system of theory? For me it was taking what worked for me and applying it to my particular style. When I was at Berklee you used the Levett Books in the beginning (personally I think they're good) but then you were free to follow your own path. I had plenty of friends who studied with Mick Goodrick and Charlie Banakas privately. I chose classical guitar because it wasn't offered at NEC at the time. Ironically the present chair of the guitar department is a classical guitarist. (sorry for the spelling Charlie and all, it's been awhile rip).
    As an addendum, I was a starving kid with little funds but determined. After the first two semesters I was given scholarship money. I Thank Berklee for that every day.
    the Leavitt thing is interesting. Seems to be a big deal stateside. I think there are some (probably Berklee trained) teachers in circulation where I am, and occasionally I inherit a (child) student and take them to the end of the book, and then move onto my normal type of material.

    At some point when I have the time and inclination, I should take a closer look and see what I want to adopt in my own practice.

    My impression always one of - extremely well organised and thought through but dry as a bone. I also worry that prolonged exposure to Leavitt exercises might actually do harm to one’s aesthetic sensibility (I’m sort of joking?) Students should read great or at least REAL music as much as possible…. Music isn’t just about acquiring skills after all, but learning an aesthetic awareness and emotional connection. Leavitt, bless him, really isn’t a composer. (OTOH finding graded reading material for plectrum guitar is a pain in the bottom?)

    there’s not much out there that’s systematic for plectrum guitar, so nothing like it, if you need someone to knuckle down and get the instrument learned; but very much almost a STEM textbook approach.

    It seems to me that in general the American music education sector really likes systems. There always seems to be a system for this or that. In the UK we are much less like that for some reason. I can see strengths and weaknesses to both ways of doing things.
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 09-25-2021 at 11:04 AM.

  8. #57

    User Info Menu

    I agree with Christian's post above. If some one took some simple Bach (or whatever) pieces and graded them gradually the joy of reading music would be a good thing. Reading music should be a discovery of great music not the drudgery of reading bad literature.

  9. #58

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jaco
    I agree with Christian's post above. If some one took some simple Bach (or whatever) pieces and graded them gradually the joy of reading music would be a good thing. Reading music should be a discovery of great music not the drudgery of reading bad literature.
    Yeah! It’s not like any learning activity teaches just one thing. You might be working on reading or transcribing, but you are so learning about music itself. It’s easy to get tempted into being to reductionist… but ultimately music doesn’t benefit from too much systemisation - there’s a balance to be found.

    I really like the Adam Levy reading book for jazz; it is good music, and you could take the examples and also use them as ideas for improv, lessons in theory, all sorts (could do that with Bach too, of course.) AL is a real musician obviously.

  10. #59

    User Info Menu

    Yea the codification aspect would depend on one's major...but if one is motivated...

    You take the Degree certification requirement classes at one of your local colleges during your summer, which will let one have more time to take advantage of the music related classes offered. And take as many extra classes as you can handle... you'll miss the boat if you don't. And you need to already have your playing and understanding of music already somewhat together before you start... go to a junior college for a few years before you enroll, this will also help with getting funds while there.

    here is some info from Berklee... (like what donplaysguitar posted, but directly from Berklee)

    The harmony core, in combination with arranging, ear training, conducting, tonal harmony and counterpoint, and music technology courses, will provide you with a broad-based musical vocabulary, important skills for your major studies, and a well-rounded musical background. Every entering student is placed into harmony courses based on the proficiencies, skills, and knowledge demonstrated on the harmony section of the Entering Student Proficiency Assessment.


    1. Develop literacy in the fundamentals of contemporary music theory (note identification, intervals, chord spelling to the 13th, scale construction including (diatonic scales, modes, non-diatonic scales);
    2. Recognize the basic chord progressions of contemporary popular music (major diatonic with chromatic embellishments, minor diatonic with chromatic embellishments, modal with chromatic embellishments) in written form;
    3. Analyze the chord progressions of popular songs in a variety of styles by employing Roman numeral and graphical analysis;
    4. Express harmonic functions as chord scales and notate them correctly;
    5. Reduce a written musical arrangement to a lead sheet using standard chord symbols;
    6. Realize harmony represented by standard chord symbols in written form through a variety of voice leading techniques (i.e. 4-way close, guide tone lines, spread voicings, hybrids, etc.);
    7. Analyze the harmonic implications of a given melody;
    8. Harmonize a given melody in a variety of popular styles; and
    9. Compose an original melody and accompanying chord progressions in a variety of popular styles.



    • transcribe increasingly advanced songs from various contemporary music styles;
    • analyze the underlying theoretical structures of various contemporary music styles;
    • synthesize advanced music theory and apply it to their own musicianship;
    • apply their enhanced theoretical knowledge as they develop an individual voice and enhanced creativity in both composition and performance; and
    • prepare for graduate work in the fields of ethnomusicology, jazz studies, music theory, or jazz composition.



    The Professional Writing and Music Technology Division is comprised of the following departments:






    When your done... you'll have a very workable understanding of what is implied by jazz theory codification. And easily be able to apply those concepts to your playing, arranging, composing etc...

    While I went to Berklee I sat in on gigs with faculty. Transcribed and made charts and arrangements, as well as the parts for the ensemble office. Basically had no life... besides music.

  11. #60

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Yeah! It’s not like any learning activity teaches just one thing. You might be working on reading or transcribing, but you are so learning about music itself. It’s easy to get tempted into being to reductionist… but ultimately music doesn’t benefit from too much systemisation - there’s a balance to be found.

    I really like the Adam Levy reading book for jazz; it is good music, and you could take the examples and also use them as ideas for improv, lessons in theory, all sorts (could do that with Bach too, of course.) AL is a real musician obviously.
    The Systemination... I like that, is generally just starting or creating "references from where to start", generally the reasoning is, it's much faster approach to get to goals. Of course that is if they are there.

    It's easy to decide what works once you get there. Where else do all the one liners come from, especially from the trial and error approach.... just play the music and it will happen. yea right.

  12. #61

    User Info Menu

    It’s always better IMO to have a system (or a plan of any kind). It’s also important not to be dogmatic and inflexible about it; don’t mistake the syllabus for the teaching. Kind of like a gig….

    And don’t imagine that you only teach students the things you intend to ;-)

    Anyway somewhat off topic.

  13. #62

    User Info Menu

    Leavitt books are for instrumental study, not theory for heaven’s sake. Same goes for piano or whatever books.

    the OP inquired about theory.

    in music school they refer to instrumental studies as “applied music”. Applied to the guitar, in the case of Leavitt.

  14. #63

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop
    I wonder does Berklee School of Music really have a codified system of jazz theory and terminology that their teachers adhere to? In other words, are their teachers told to teach a specific Berklee jazz theory system?
    I thought not, but maybe they do. I know they publish course books.

    And, how influential on jazz is the Berklee School? Does it really substantially effect the course of the jazz world? I thought they were simply a prestigious music college, a training camp, a place to make contacts and be recognized.
    the answer to your first question should not be very different from any other college course of study, especially when dealing with fundamentals. Fundamentals are covered in the first 1-2 years of undergrad school. Those are the two years in which music majors study theory/harmony.

  15. #64

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by jaco
    ....Metheny was teaching at Berklee while I was there. The Jazz Workshop shows with Bill Evans, McCoy,Tony Williams, Gary Burton with Pat and Mick, Oregon. Keith Jarrett at Symphony Hall. Wednesday night $1.00 admission with student ID for rehearsal with the Boston Symphony Orchestra. Imagine Ozawa rehearsing "the Rite of Spring" for a buck. The Boston Museum, Gardner Museum, Fogg Museum at Harvard. Classmates Mike Stern, Jamie Glaser, Bill Frisell, Vinnie Coliuta...It was a magical time...I cherish it
    Now that's an education! And the classes don't hurt either :-)

  16. #65

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft
    Now that's an education! And the classes don't hurt either :-)
    Sounds like jaco was there in the heyday…
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 09-25-2021 at 02:20 PM.