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  1. #51
    Here's where one note blows away all 88 on the piano:


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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Clint 55 View Post
    Pianists don't play 1 note at a time. They play several, and so the different timbres created by the different key speeds create a unique overall tone.
    Yes, i just said that, "how they blend their notes". But that is far less unique than how non pianists might imagine that to be. It's only perhaps noticeable to a slight degrees in the very exposed solo piano ballads.
    Its more about their melody, harmony, and rhythm that makes them unique.

  4. #53

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    There are fewer variables for pianists to sound unique tone wise compared to guitar, but there are still large differences in tone between players. And not just solo or ballad context. PS: BB wasn't playing 1 note :P




  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun View Post
    I think that even guitarists should be at least familiar with the piano if only because it's a lot easier to analyse things theoretically on a piano than it is on a guitar.
    Ive got a lot out of this

  6. #55

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    You could take one of those piano keyboard neckties that were popular in the 80s and analyse music theoretically on it. You could use this building. The possibilities are endless. It is just one octave after another.

    But on the guitar, where do you start? Not only is there no money after the fifth fret, that area is terra incognita to most players.

    Also, you have to change your own strings and tune the thing, often.

    I should have listened to my parents.

  7. #56

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    Regarding differences in sound between piano players, of course they exist, but they are very minimal when compared to guitar players. I can instantly hear Mcoy, Red Garland, Horace Silver, Oscar Peterson etc, most of us will instantly recognize Wes, Pat Martino, Benson, etc..

    But to the less familiarized ear, all piano more or less sounds the same (like all distortion guitar, or all generic hollow body guitar sounds the same).

    This sound diversity has been one the things I have really enjoyed in playing the guitar. Many faces (and even many instruments, electric, acoustic, jazz, classical..) in one! No other instrument can match that. (Synths can of course, but to a heavy digital cost..)

  8. #57

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    Then of course there are the advantages of the piano over the guitar! Easy harmonic sophistication, more notes, easier to accompany yourself, easier to see and explore harmony and composition.

    But the biggest one to me is the sound of the instrument. The piano is unmatched in richness, and just in.. sound! You play one note and hear a dozen. Play say, a quartal voicing, and you instantly hear the different world compared to thirds. Even the best guitars can't come close to that. It's so easy to get lost in the sound of a piano, especially the grand ones..

  9. #58

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    Nothing original here...
    We're given the somewhat inverse relationship of complexity vs portability: orchestra-organ-piano-guitar-brass-cello-doublebass-harmonica-recorder-tambourine-whistle-triangle...

    What does it mean? Lowered audience expectations? Reduced technique? Well, the world's a smaller place with the loss of any one of them, as every instrument has its niche. The expression available to the pianoforte is soft-loud. Guitar has this and more. But the guitar has only four fingers while the piano has ten. Ten to Four. The tin-whistle's plaintiveness is unique. And what is Motown without a tambourine? Where is blues without the harmonica? Reduced. Every instrument can learn from the others.

    The keyboard is the arranger's bread and butter. Ragtime, boogie, stride... piano is a one-man band. A smart guitarist benefits greatly from seconding on piano, or even from a close listening. With slight of hand, we can imitate, almost duplicate, its ideas. I've learned much in my little world from listening closely to the piano greats. But I'm a string musician and cannot enjoy typing on keys. With guitar, bass, plecrum-banjo, the strings are alive under my fingers.

    While saxophones aren't chordal, we sure like to hear 'em. And we can't do much without drums. In fact, expectations are lowered as we shed the less complicated instruments. In the end, the ear is king. It's the ear that must be satisfied.

    Every guitarist would benefit from playing in an orchestra; where one learns respect for each chair. Too many guitarists play alone in their bedrooms or in guitar-bands, where competition precludes cooperation. Remember the ol' pecking order? Lead, Rhythm, Bass... Lots of drama to fight about in the band room.

    Guitar was hijacked by teenage mentality. Threads like this are interesting, but they would only exist on guitar chat-boards. Pianists argue about how to accompany vocalists, sax players argue about arranging section chord stacks, drummers argue about ways of driving and swinging the band... It's all about how they fit in. Whereas, guitarists argue about fastest, loudest, bestest electronics... or who has the oldest, deepest, widest guitar. Every detail is magnified, except the music. No wonder we're the worst readers of all musicians.
    Last edited by StringNavigator; 05-05-2021 at 06:35 AM.

  10. #59

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    Guitar envy:

    Piano or Guitar, which has more advantages?-474ed8ff-6419-45ef-898e-9fa61fc162da-jpeg

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by rintincop View Post
    ....Pianists are often subjected to terrible instruments with stiff actions, and have no control over the tuning....
    A local singer/songwriter used to show up early for gigs with a tuning hammer and felts and tune up the (usually cheap upright) instrument he was given to play. I notice that he's out of the area now, and seems to be concentrating on guitar.

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun View Post
    I think that even guitarists should be at least familiar with the piano if only because it's a lot easier to analyse things theoretically on a piano than it is on a guitar.
    This is of special interest to me.

    Could you please describe a theory that is clear on the piano but difficult to see on guitar?

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun View Post
    I think that even guitarists should be at least familiar with the piano if only because it's a lot easier to analyse things theoretically on a piano than it is on a guitar.
    Miles, Diz, Dexter, Arturo all did exactly that. And Arturo is as proficient on the piano as he is on his horn. In fact, he’s a beast!


  14. #63

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    ^ Wow that's really good. Really took the dynamics down on that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by WILSON 1 View Post
    This is of special interest to me. Could you please describe a theory that is clear on the piano but difficult to see on guitar?
    I don't think it's any harder to conceptualize things on guitar than piano. It's harder to play some things.

  15. #64

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    Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun
    I think that even guitarists should be at least familiar with the piano if only because it's a lot easier to analyse things theoretically on a piano than it is on a guitar.

    Quote Originally Posted by WILSON 1 View Post
    This is of special interest to me. Could you please describe a theory that is clear on the piano but difficult to see on guitar?
    I strongly suggest that all guitarists learn something about piano. Walmart sells electronic keyboards for $31.99 before tax. It could be a part of one's practice routine. One will really know what a 13th sounds like with the 9th included. One can play all extensions in close order. Even the m711 with the 9th. Learn the difference between a 7-13 and a 7+5 or 7+11 vs 7-5. Play it and hear it. A Piano is the greatest tool for ear training that a guitarist can have.

    The key to musical analysis is being able to read music notation. Guitarists are notorious for not being readers. There's many reasons, but it's primarily the over abundance of notes on the fingerboard. Pianists are excellent readers, because the Grand Stave is a visual representation of the piano keyboard. The piano is very graphic. The king of the instruments for all composers and arrangers. Even teachers and performers. Every great musical star was familiar with the piano. They were once ubiquitous. Piano movers had full time jobs.

    GUITAR:
    The fingerboard is not instinctive:
    Only four fingers are available.
    Technique is difficult.
    Natural notes and the Sharps & Flats are not delineated.
    There are many ways to play the same thing as many notes are repeated on different strings.
    Literature is not as sophisticated.
    Composition and arranging are tougher on guitar.
    The sight of an accidental can freeze you, as you really need to know where that note is on the fingerboard. There are no visual clues like the black keys of a piano..
    Each octave is fingered differently due to tuning (See CAGED).
    Some chords require more notes than we have fingers.
    Some chords are nearly impossible to play.
    Close voicings are out of the question on guitar.
    Learning and memorizing notes on guitar are more difficult.
    Musical patterns are difficult to see and are not repeated exactly
    The fingers cannot be dedicated or matched to the same notes in each octave.
    Intervals between notes are not readily identifiable.
    Contrapuntal movement is fraught with difficulty, therefore limited.
    Substitutions, Extensions, Alterations, Modes, Inversions, Upper Structures, and Passing Chords are more difficult to locate and play than piano.
    Boogie-Woogie is tough to play on guitar.
    Guitarists have to tune their own guitar.
    You can't flick your hand across the strings and sound professional.
    Guitars have necks.
    Guitarists wear cargo shorts and sandals.
    Guitars are puny.
    Guitars don't burn long.
    Guitars are uncomfortable to sleep on.
    Guitar strings wear out and break.
    Guitars give you calluses.
    You have to stand up a lot.
    Too many pedals.
    The hole is too small to put anything in.
    You can't use your left hand to smoke while playing.
    It's not good when someone places their drink on your guitar.
    Guitarists usually have to pay to play.

    PIANO:
    The keyboard layout is instinctive:
    On the keyboard, one can use ten fingers. Both hands.
    Technique is instinctive for non-virtuoso playing.
    Left Hand is F Clef; Right Hand is G Clef.
    Natural notes are White Keys; Sharps & Flats are Black Keys.
    Piano's Middle C is between both Staves.
    Each note has one unique key.
    There is much more literature.
    Composition and arranging is facilitated.
    Just the sight of an accidental sends your finger to a black key.
    Each octave is fingered in the same way.
    One can play chords of up to ten notes.
    Any chord is possible to play.
    Close voicings are easy.
    Learning and memorizing notes on the piano is easier.
    Musical patterns are easier to see and are often repeated across all keys.
    The fingers can be dedicated or matched to certain notes in each octave.
    Intervals between notes can be identified easily.
    Contrapuntal movement is unlimited.
    Substitutions, Extensions, Alterations, Modes, Inversions, Upper Structures, and Passing Chords are easy to locate.
    Boogie-Woogie is easy to play on piano.
    Pianists have someone else to tune their piano.
    You can flick your hand across the keys and sound professional.
    Pianos have legs.
    Pianists wear tuxedos.
    Pianos are huge.
    Piano wood can last for a week.
    Some people claim to have made love on a piano.
    Piano strings don't break. You never have to change piano strings.
    Piano keys are smooth.
    You get to sit down a lot. It even comes with a seat.
    Only three pedals.
    You can keep your lunch-pail under the lid.
    You can smoke with your left hand while playing.
    You don't care when someone places their drink on your piano. You can sip it when they ain't looking.
    Pianists always get paid.
    Last edited by StringNavigator; 05-06-2021 at 04:02 PM.

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by WILSON 1 View Post
    This is of special interest to me.

    Could you please describe a theory that is clear on the piano but difficult to see on guitar?
    I don't know if you'd call it theory ...

    Hold root and b5 in your left hand and then play every root position major triad with your right. You get to hear 12 sounds. Some usable.

    Now, do that on guitar.

    Repeat with other kinds of triads and different intervals in the left hand.

    A beginning piano student can do it. An advanced guitarist would be lucky to get close.

    But, I'm not suggesting the guitar has no advantages. Quite the opposite. The guitar gives a multitude of ways to speak a note, permitting greater breadth of expression. Classical pianists talk about touch, but I don't usually hear much of that except on ballads

  17. #66
    That’s an amazing post. Did you come up with all those by yourself? I would like to quote it.

    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator View Post
    Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun
    I think that even guitarists should be at least familiar with the piano if only because it's a lot easier to analyse things theoretically on a piano than it is on a guitar.



    I strongly suggest that all guitarists learn something about piano. Walmart sells electronic keyboards for $31.99 before tax. It could be a part of one's practice routine. One will really know what a 13th sounds like with the 9th included. One can play all extensions in close order. Even the m711 with the 9th. Learn the difference between a 7-13 and a 7+5 or 7+11 vs 7-5. Play it and hear it. A Piano is the greatest tool for ear training that a guitarist can have.

    The key to musical analysis is being able to read music notation. Guitarists are notorious for not being readers. There's many reasons, but it's primarily the over abundance of notes on the fingerboard. Pianists are excellent readers, because the Grand Stave is a visual representation of the piano keyboard. The piano is very graphic. The king of the instruments for all composers and arrangers. Even teachers and performers. Every great musical star was familiar with the piano. They were once ubiquitous. Piano movers had full time jobs.

    GUITAR:
    The fingerboard is not instinctive:
    Only four fingers are available.
    Technique is difficult.
    Natural notes and the Sharps & Flats are not delineated.
    There are many ways to play the same thing as many notes are repeated on different strings.
    Literature is not as sophisticated.
    Composition and arranging are tougher on guitar.
    The sight of an accidental can freeze you, as you really need to know where that note is on the fingerboard. There are no visual clues like the black keys of a piano..
    Each octave is fingered differently due to tuning (See CAGED).
    Some chords require more notes than we have fingers.
    Some chords are nearly impossible to play.
    Close voicings are out of the question on guitar.
    Learning and memorizing notes on guitar are more difficult.
    Musical patterns are difficult to see and are not repeated exactly
    The fingers cannot be dedicated or matched to the same notes in each octave.
    Intervals between notes are not readily identifiable.
    Contrapuntal movement is fraught with difficulty, therefore limited.
    Substitutions, Extensions, Alterations, Modes, Inversions, Upper Structures, and Passing Chords are more difficult to locate and play than piano.
    Boogie-Woogie is tough to play on guitar.
    Guitarists have to tune their own guitar.
    You can't flick your hand across the strings and sound professional.
    Guitars have necks.
    Guitarists wear cargo shorts and sandals.
    Guitars are puny.
    Guitars don't burn long.
    Guitars are uncomfortable to sleep on.
    Guitar strings wear out and break.
    Guitars give you calluses.
    You have to stand up a lot.
    Too many pedals.
    The hole is too small to put anything in.
    You can't use your left hand to smoke while playing.
    It's not good when someone places their drink on your guitar.
    Guitarists usually have to pay to play.

    PIANO:
    The keyboard layout is instinctive:
    On the keyboard, one can use ten fingers. Both hands.
    Technique is instinctive for non-virtuoso playing.
    Left Hand is F Clef; Right Hand is G Clef.
    Natural notes are White Keys; Sharps & Flats are Black Keys.
    Piano's Middle C is between both Staves.
    Each note has one unique key.
    There is much more literature.
    Composition and arranging is facilitated.
    Just the sight of an accidental sends your finger to a black key.
    Each octave is fingered in the same way.
    One can play chords of up to ten notes.
    Any chord is possible to play.
    Close voicings are easy.
    Learning and memorizing notes on the piano is easier.
    Musical patterns are easier to see and are often repeated across all keys.
    The fingers can be dedicated or matched to certain notes in each octave.
    Intervals between notes can be identified easily.
    Contrapuntal movement is unlimited.
    Substitutions, Extensions, Alterations, Modes, Inversions, Upper Structures, and Passing Chords are easy to locate.
    Boogie-Woogie is easy to play on piano.
    Pianists have someone else to tune their piano.
    You can flick your hand across the keys and sound professional.
    Pianos have legs.
    Pianists wear tuxedos.
    Pianos are huge.
    Piano wood can last for a week.
    Some people claim to have made love on a piano.
    Piano strings don't break. You never have to change piano strings.
    Piano keys are smooth.
    You get to sit down a lot. It even comes with a seat.
    Only three pedals.
    You can keep your lunch-pail under the lid.
    You can smoke with your left hand while playing.
    You don't care when someone places their drink on your piano. You can sip it when they ain't looking.
    Pianists always get paid.

  18. #67

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    Try THIS with a piano!


  19. #68

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    Try THIS with a piano!


  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyV View Post
    Try THIS with a piano!
    Most amazing is that Groucho's really playing it. And well!
    Wouldn't you jump in and catch that guitar before it hit the water?
    ...

  21. #70

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    At first glance, piano would seem vastly superior, but here are my reasons for preferring guitar:

    1) limitation
    I feel the limitation on how many notes you can play at once makes things more interesting. And often guitar players make use of the imagination to fill in notes that aren’t exactly there. I feel it makes arranging and composing on guitar more creative by necessity.

    2) guitar is mysterious and sounds mysterious. Slowly played chord melody for example, has a cool harp-like quality as the notes glide off the pick. Just very cool.

    3) piano is a sound so well known, it doesn’t excite my brain any more. It’s just too everywhere. Too over exposed. Too normal.
    On the other hand, a killer jazz guitar tone is relatively rare and just melts me still.

    plus all the other things mentioned in previous posts.

    Guitar vs piano tone variation…I mean that’s kind of a joke. Between amps, speakers, pedals, etc. it’s not even close.

    im not bashing pianos, I’m glad they exist and it’s hard to imagine life without them!
    But for me there is magic and mystery in the guitar, even if it is really, more limited.

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator View Post
    Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun
    I think that even guitarists should be at least familiar with the piano if only because it's a lot easier to analyse things theoretically on a piano than it is on a guitar.



    I strongly suggest that all guitarists learn something about piano. Walmart sells electronic keyboards for $31.99 before tax. It could be a part of one's practice routine. One will really know what a 13th sounds like with the 9th included. One can play all extensions in close order. Even the m711 with the 9th. Learn the difference between a 7-13 and a 7+5 or 7+11 vs 7-5. Play it and hear it. A Piano is the greatest tool for ear training that a guitarist can have.

    The key to musical analysis is being able to read music notation. Guitarists are notorious for not being readers. There's many reasons, but it's primarily the over abundance of notes on the fingerboard. Pianists are excellent readers, because the Grand Stave is a visual representation of the piano keyboard. The piano is very graphic. The king of the instruments for all composers and arrangers. Even teachers and performers. Every great musical star was familiar with the piano. They were once ubiquitous. Piano movers had full time jobs.

    GUITAR:
    The fingerboard is not instinctive:
    Only four fingers are available.
    Technique is difficult.
    Natural notes and the Sharps & Flats are not delineated.
    There are many ways to play the same thing as many notes are repeated on different strings.
    Literature is not as sophisticated.
    Composition and arranging are tougher on guitar.
    The sight of an accidental can freeze you, as you really need to know where that note is on the fingerboard. There are no visual clues like the black keys of a piano..
    Each octave is fingered differently due to tuning (See CAGED).
    Some chords require more notes than we have fingers.
    Some chords are nearly impossible to play.
    Close voicings are out of the question on guitar.
    Learning and memorizing notes on guitar are more difficult.
    Musical patterns are difficult to see and are not repeated exactly
    The fingers cannot be dedicated or matched to the same notes in each octave.
    Intervals between notes are not readily identifiable.
    Contrapuntal movement is fraught with difficulty, therefore limited.
    Substitutions, Extensions, Alterations, Modes, Inversions, Upper Structures, and Passing Chords are more difficult to locate and play than piano.
    Boogie-Woogie is tough to play on guitar.
    Guitarists have to tune their own guitar.
    You can't flick your hand across the strings and sound professional.
    Guitars have necks.
    Guitarists wear cargo shorts and sandals.
    Guitars are puny.
    Guitars don't burn long.
    Guitars are uncomfortable to sleep on.
    Guitar strings wear out and break.
    Guitars give you calluses.
    You have to stand up a lot.
    Too many pedals.
    The hole is too small to put anything in.
    You can't use your left hand to smoke while playing.
    It's not good when someone places their drink on your guitar.
    Guitarists usually have to pay to play.

    PIANO:
    The keyboard layout is instinctive:
    On the keyboard, one can use ten fingers. Both hands.
    Technique is instinctive for non-virtuoso playing.
    Left Hand is F Clef; Right Hand is G Clef.
    Natural notes are White Keys; Sharps & Flats are Black Keys.
    Piano's Middle C is between both Staves.
    Each note has one unique key.
    There is much more literature.
    Composition and arranging is facilitated.
    Just the sight of an accidental sends your finger to a black key.
    Each octave is fingered in the same way.
    One can play chords of up to ten notes.
    Any chord is possible to play.
    Close voicings are easy.
    Learning and memorizing notes on the piano is easier.
    Musical patterns are easier to see and are often repeated across all keys.
    The fingers can be dedicated or matched to certain notes in each octave.
    Intervals between notes can be identified easily.
    Contrapuntal movement is unlimited.
    Substitutions, Extensions, Alterations, Modes, Inversions, Upper Structures, and Passing Chords are easy to locate.
    Boogie-Woogie is easy to play on piano.
    Pianists have someone else to tune their piano.
    You can flick your hand across the keys and sound professional.
    Pianos have legs.
    Pianists wear tuxedos.
    Pianos are huge.
    Piano wood can last for a week.
    Some people claim to have made love on a piano.
    Piano strings don't break. You never have to change piano strings.
    Piano keys are smooth.
    You get to sit down a lot. It even comes with a seat.
    Only three pedals.
    You can keep your lunch-pail under the lid.
    You can smoke with your left hand while playing.
    You don't care when someone places their drink on your piano. You can sip it when they ain't looking.
    Pianists always get paid.
    That really was a fun to read post; I'm glad we can retain a sense of humor over this, but I do still have a nagging issue.

    This business that the piano is the "go to" instrument to know and understand music while the guitar is a weak relative to theory, I find distracting and believe it can lead to
    "guitarist melancholiness" ie. why didn't I choose to play piano.

    Or, I'll "really" know theory on piano and then try to emulate it on the guitar.

    This mentality can also lead to too much time spent fiddling on the piano instead of developing greater command of your instrument of choice.

    You suggest that piano study could be a part of one's practice routine and I'm sure that has always been true for the singularly melodic instruments, but I have to state
    from experience that most of my guitarists friends ( and students ) can't afford any more time away from guitar practice.

    You don't need 88 keys arranged symmetrically to analyze music. You do need them to make a big sound.
    You state that only four fingers are available however just after putting 6 tones up against one another things get a bit redundant.

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by WILSON 1 View Post
    You suggest that piano study could be a part of one's practice routine...but I have to state from experience that most of my guitarists friends (and students) can't afford any more time away from guitar practice.

    You don't need 88 keys arranged symmetrically to analyze music. You do need them to make a big sound. You state that only four fingers are available however just after putting 6 tones up against one another things get a bit redundant.
    88 Or 24
    As a guitarists' aid to studying harmony, an 88 or 108 key grand piano would be overkill. Reduced keyboards, covering only three octaves, 24 keys, would probably be sufficient, as long as they correspond to the range of the guitar.

    Too Many Notes
    As for seven tone chords, one could start from a full 13th, but then pare it down to a ninth or seventh. The ear training alone is worth the price of admission. It could be as harmonically dense or sparse as you want, from a 13th with all possible extensions, down to just the two guide tones. Inversions and many combinations of slash chords are available and much easier to grab than on the guitar. Again, it's that visual thing possessed by pianos.

    Listening And Deciding On What To Keep
    Translating a seven tone chord from piano to guitar is not really the goal. Which of the seven tones to keep is. Guitar is good for Drop 2 and Drop 3 chords, but the Close Position voicings are difficult to realise on guitar. Piano would allow one to actually hear them and compose with them or at least recognise them. Start with 13ths with 9ths and +11ths and altered tones and then reduce, reduce, reduce. But at least you'ill be sure about what sounds you are omitting, and the combinations that you are keeping. A matrix of dominant chords with 5ths, 9ths, +/-5, +/-9 yields 3x3 = nine possible combinations. 11ths and 13ths complicate it further. A piano is like a pallet that allows you to readily hear each combination.

    Is It For Everyone?
    Taking time away from guitar practice to use a piano for ear training depends upon one's goals. What degree of musical intelligence is one seeking? We all practice what we need, eventually. Musicians can select many hats: performance, composition, arranging, study, conducting and teaching. Who would have use for a piano, and why?.

    What Hat Do You Wear?
    I won't argue about arranging, because any serious arranger uses a piano to arrange parts. Composing is done on guitar, but let's face it, a movie score or sound track needs a piano. It is a musician's "lingua franca". A conductor must know the score, and a piano encompasses any orchestra. That leaves teachers, students and performers. For these three, a piano can be useful, but not indispensable. A musician who adheres to performance only may never want a piano around. In my musical studies I find a keyboard most useful for ear training. That prepares me for performance, and it's fun.

    Lost Musicality - Strange Jazz
    From the turn of the 20th century to somewhere after WWII, pianos were more common than fire hydrants. Everyone had an upright somewhere. And where does most of our musical heritage come from? That very time frame. The most musical music of all time came from an era where pianos were ubiquitous. Today, hardly anyone can play piano, let alone own one. And music today has lost its melody. Few songs are composed now that can compare with those of Gershwin, Porter or Berlin, et al. I hardly recognise what passes for jazz, today. It's more like jazz tinged music. Jazz has become a permanent fixture in Museums. Next stop - the Mausoleum.
    Last edited by StringNavigator; 05-07-2021 at 11:47 PM.

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator View Post
    88 Or 24

    Lost Musicality - Strange Jazz
    From the turn of the 20th century to somewhere after WWII, pianos were more common than fire hydrants. Everyone had an upright somewhere. And where does most of our musical heritage come from? That very time frame. The most musical music of all time came from an era where pianos were ubiquitous. Today, hardly anyone can play piano, let alone own one. And music today has lost its melody. Few songs are composed now that can compare with those of Gershwin, Porter or Berlin, et al. I hardly recognize what passes for jazz, today. It's more like jazz tinged music. Jazz has become a permanent fixture in Museums. Next stop - the Mausoleum.
    Gotta say I'm with you 100% on everything here.

    I think I focused on the word "analyze" ( maybe too much ) in Shadow of the Sun's post.

    I agree that ear training is most efficient with the full range of tones at one's fingers but I think a guitarist should analyze at the fretboard.

    I'm not a piano player but I do know that piano players choose to play drop-2, 3 while guitarists virtually live there.

    Honestly, I don't think piano soundings are helpful and can be down right depressing for guitarists...too many notes.

  25. #74
    I personally think the rhythmic aspects are the primary distinction, specifically the sound of the left hand "lift". I think it's what people subconsciously associate with guitar as being a rhythm instrument.

    I love Keith Jarrett and other's left hand on keys, but it's a softer sound on "release" with dampers on piano strings... and not really the same. The crispness of negative space on guitar is a serious distinction and not easily distinguished from other aspects related tone etc. Again, IMO... Listen to Amy Nolte telling players of other instruments to imagine the Freddie Green Sound, and this is what she's talking about: left hand lift primarily. To be fair, the percussive attack of right-hand on guitar is pretty distinctive as well. So... sharper on the attack AND release. Definitely more percussive than keys.

    I am tempted to bring up phrasing aspects and especially octaves, but again, I don't think octaves are really even the distinction, WITHOUT the distinctive of left-hand lift. It's what makes octaves so different from piano.

    It's also fair to mention slides as being a distinctive sound compared to slurs on other instruments, ...but again the left hand. Slides on guitars aren't quite "just grace notes" analogous to piano etc. Love Wes' s thumb, but honestly, I think 95% of that thumb is left hand technique.

    Will hide now.

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by WILSON 1 View Post
    Gotta say I'm with you 100% on everything here.

    I think I focused on the word "analyze" ( maybe too much ) in Shadow of the Sun's post.

    I agree that ear training is most efficient with the full range of tones at one's fingers but I think a guitarist should analyze at the fretboard.

    I'm not a piano player but I do know that piano players choose to play drop-2, 3 while guitarists virtually live there.

    Honestly, I don't think piano soundings are helpful and can be down right depressing for guitarists...too many notes.
    I love the part where you say you don’t play piano, and then express all the many reasons you’re against piano! Biased much?