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  1. #1

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    I have started to develop a nice fingerstyle solo arrangement of I'm Old Fashioned.In bars 7 - 8 the chords are Em7b5 to A7b9 (according to the Real Book).I'm just wondering what would be standard jazz progression to put in over those chords?Currently I have Em7b5 - Dm7 - C7 - Gm7 / A7b9 which sounds ok. I'm just wondering of there's a standard sub for the Real Book changes.

    Also bars 15 - 16 are G-7/C (slash chord) to C7.The Real Book version starts with F6 btw.Thanks you

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    anything that gets you strongly to
    D- in bar 9 ....

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    anything that gets you strongly to
    D- in bar 9 ....
    Yes the A7 does that but is there a typical jazz progression that people play over those two bars?

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker
    Yes the A7 does that but is there a typical jazz progression that people play over those two bars?

    Em7b5.. b5 shows up because of the key (it is VII os F major or ii of D minor where it is heading to in the conxet) but as there is no Bb in the melody and you play alone I would not ignore an option to play Em7 with b nat

    Same thing about A7b9 I could drop out b9... this way you bring in more of D major colour (or D melodic minor, after all melodic minor is a sort of mixture of major and minor)...

    And I would treat this as ii-V going in major in general... to me it is fun to treat the oppsite way when the orginal turnaround has obvious minorish sound it is interesting (if context allows!) to make it sound major - it brings in freshness and sharpness...
    (Same thing works the other way around with minor turnaround for major progession)

    Then if you speak about typical tools those are triton subs, chromatic parallel chords or approach chords ... it could be dom, min, dim chords with various extentions or alterations in inversions or drop forms
    Consider voice-leading

    for example

    Em7 - Bb7b5 (or Bbo) - A7 - Db7(9 or #9 ) ... you can use it with Em7b5 and A7b9 too of course

  6. #5

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    Also bars 15 - 16 are G-7/C (slash chord) to C7
    It is ii - V in the key of the song. So you can treat it just as any ii-V applying all teh options and tools and approaches for i-V proper in the context.

    Slash C only says the idea of using pedal C bass for these changes... actually it describes very well one of the ideas of ii-V in jazz... ii-V can be treated as just V ...
    (actually it can be also treated as just ii, or even just IV etc.)
    thre is nothing in the song that strongly presumes using that slash chord. It is just one of the possibilities...

    G-7/C = C9sus4... so you basically have C9 chord with just one note suspended

  7. #6

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    For Em7b5 to A7b9, d'you know that for any ii-V (major or minor) you can go back and forth between the chords, Em7b5 A7b9 Em7b5 A7b9, if you are harmonising a run, or anything else, really. Basic stuff, but in a ballad it keeps the harmony from sounding too static.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah
    Em7b5.. b5 shows up because of the key (it is VII os F major or ii of D minor where it is heading to in the conxet) but as there is no Bb in the melody and you play alone I would not ignore an option to play Em7 with b nat

    Same thing about A7b9 I could drop out b9... this way you bring in more of D major colour (or D melodic minor, after all melodic minor is a sort of mixture of major and minor)...

    And I would treat this as ii-V going in major in general... to me it is fun to treat the oppsite way when the orginal turnaround has obvious minorish sound it is interesting (if context allows!) to make it sound major - it brings in freshness and sharpness...
    (Same thing works the other way around with minor turnaround for major progession)

    Then if you speak about typical tools those are triton subs, chromatic parallel chords or approach chords ... it could be dom, min, dim chords with various extentions or alterations in inversions or drop forms
    Consider voice-leading

    for example

    Em7 - Bb7b5 (or Bbo) - A7 - Db7(9 or #9 ) ... you can use it with Em7b5 and A7b9 too of course
    Beautiful. Thank you.

    Thanks to you both actually (bjgdaddy you too ).

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah
    Em7b5.. b5 shows up because of the key (it is VII os F major or ii of D minor where it is heading to in the conxet) but as there is no Bb in the melody and you play alone I would not ignore an option to play Em7 with b nat

    Same thing about A7b9 I could drop out b9... this way you bring in more of D major colour (or D melodic minor, after all melodic minor is a sort of mixture of major and minor)...

    And I would treat this as ii-V going in major in general... to me it is fun to treat the oppsite way when the orginal turnaround has obvious minorish sound it is interesting (if context allows!) to make it sound major - it brings in freshness and sharpness...
    (Same thing works the other way around with minor turnaround for major progession)

    Then if you speak about typical tools those are triton subs, chromatic parallel chords or approach chords ... it could be dom, min, dim chords with various extentions or alterations in inversions or drop forms
    Consider voice-leading

    for example

    Em7 - Bb7b5 (or Bbo) - A7 - Db7(9 or #9 ) ... you can use it with Em7b5 and A7b9 too of course
    Please could you explain the Db7? Thanks

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by garybaldy
    Please could you explain the Db7? Thanks
    Well if I had to... I would call it 'common 3rd'
    They both have a 3rd f natural... and to my ear Db7 move to Dm7 sounds like a big fat chromatic approach note around that static 3rd...



    You can also put it
    Idim to I6 which is quite common
    Db7 is represented like Fdim making 3,5,7,b9
    Dm7 as F6
    For example
    XX3434
    XX3535

    I guess other explanations are possible too.


    I like the sound with 3rd inside and less diminished sound


    X4345X
    X5356X

    Or
    X4344X
    X5355X

    Or
    XX3444
    XX3434

  11. #10

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    You'll find some great ideas here:



    Ed Bickert Solo Transcription-I'm Old Fashioned