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  1. #26

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    I used to think that Piano is the best way for fingers to "sing" - You think of an interval in either direction and find it more easily on the piano, so as a consequence, this may explain why piano players are better at playing immediately what someone else might play or sing to sing to them.

    But then you realise that finding notes along a single string on a guitar is actually even more logical and easier to see. So for pure ear training using the guitar to express melodic ideas, a lot can be accomplished this way. Later, transferring melodic ear training across the strings can happen quicker, so that any interval in either direction can be found, and obviously easier to play (if not easier to "see"). From here, playing different intervals simultaneously (chords) need not seem so mysterious.

    Now let's not get carried away, 10 fingers kills 4 in every way, but if we at least aim to be as good as a good pianist's right hand, we're doing OK...

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    I used to think that Piano is the best way for fingers to "sing" - You think of an interval in either direction and find it more easily on the piano, so as a consequence, this may explain why piano players are better at playing immediately what someone else might play or sing to sing to them.

    But then you realise that finding notes along a single string on a guitar is actually even more logical and easier to see. So for pure ear training using the guitar to express melodic ideas, a lot can be accomplished this way. Later, transferring melodic ear training across the strings can happen quicker, so that any interval in either direction can be found, and obviously easier to play (if not easier to "see"). From here, playing different intervals simultaneously (chords) need not seem so mysterious.

    Now let's not get carried away, 10 fingers kills 4 in every way, but if we at least aim to be as good as a good pianist's right hand, we're doing OK...
    Indeed. A single string is probably the most pure way to visualize musical contents philosophically speaking. No white or black keys.. Scale/arpeggio formulas right out in the open..

  4. #28

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    How much (if any) piano you need can depend on your goals and aspirations. Who are your role models, the folk you'd hope to be like, play on gigs with, etc.

    It's my observation that most people working together on a given scene have a similar body of knowledge and skills. Virtually every working jazz musician I know has at least a basic working knowledge of the piano. Many songwriter/guitarists (John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan, Elvis Costello) are adept at composing and performing from the piano as well.

    It's hard to say if working through the Hindimeth is the most direct path to your own personal goals, but I believe every serious musician can benefit from time on the keyboard, so if you're inspired to dive in, give it a shot

    Best wishes for your music!

    PK

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz
    I had a required course in "functional piano" as a Berklee student many years ago.
    Now we're getting somewhere! What book(s) did the "functional piano" course use?

    Thanks & have a great 2021!

  6. #30

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    So are you going to pursue guitar and piano equally, or are you going to view guitar as your main 'dumb' instrument that you can't learn any theory on and piano as your secondary 'educated' instrument that must be used as the source of all theoretical music knowledge?
    Last edited by Clint 55; 12-26-2020 at 01:21 AM.

  7. #31

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    I am not a piano player.

    The two semesters of piano at our local community college along with theory and sight singing/ear training was a great help with my guitar playing.

    Do it you wont be sorry.

    I was already playing guitar for 50 years when I did this,

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBGuitar
    I am not a piano player.

    The two semesters of piano at our local community college along with theory and sight singing/ear training was a great help with my guitar playing.

    Do it you wont be sorry.

    I was already playing guitar for 50 years when I did this,
    Thanks, what books did you use in the piano / theory classes?

  9. #33

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    Piano was a adult beginning piano book, don't remember the title.

    For theory there was no text book just my notes and handouts.

  10. #34

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    Peter Cook and Dudley Moore’s Music Lesson:

    I know the basic things about the piano. The notes. The white ones — the black ones. The black ones play louder than the white, don’t they?


  11. #35

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    Here's a free online class. I dropped it because it's based around piano and I don't have one, or access to one. They explained modes right off the bat in a way I understood.


    Fundamentals of Music Theory | Coursera

  12. #36

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    Is your intention is to write songs incorporating jazz harmony (it's not clear from your initial post)? If so, I'd forget Hindemith for now and pick up a copy of Jeb Patton's book, Introduction to Jazz Piano: A Deep Dive:

    Introduction to Jazz Piano: A Deep Dive by Jeb Patton | Sher Music Co.

    Patton is an established NY-based player and his book takes you from basic triads to more complex harmony with reference to recorded examples. He offers simplified transcriptions of these tracks to get you playing from the start with the masters. Patton's earlier comping books, aimed at advanced pianists, are similarly designed. Although I work primarily as a guitarist, I've studied both classical and jazz piano for over 50 years (!) and highly recommend his hands-on approach.

  13. #37

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    PMB,

    I took 3 lessons with Jeb Patton before I moved across the country. Nice guy, great teacher. He introduced me to my current teacher.

    I got his first compin book, found out that he taught in Queens, and sent an email.

    Cool experience, even got to have a lesson with his wife--she is quite the vocalist.

  14. #38

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    If you are into jazz i will try to work with Dan Haerle´s Jazz Piano Voicing Skills book, so...you learn your basic chords and progressions with diferent voicings. Fast and straight way to learn.
    Then i will check a book on jazz harmony, there are tons out there, but i would not try something exhausting, but something practical. I guess you migh only need to know a few tonal progressions,those more frecuently used, and ways to modulate, which you´ll find in songs.
    You can study harmony only in C major, where you can see everything clearer. And then work ahead from there to other keys.
    And same as guitar, first voicings you need to learn are Shell voicings, playing the root on the left and guide tones on the right hand.
    If you want to play melody or lines in the right hand you basically can use Bud Powell left hand shell voicings, usually playing R-3 or R-7(two notes) on the left hand.
    The basic thing is easy, from there there´s no limit.

  15. #39

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    I did this. To start, just get the absolute fundamentals down:
    1) major and minor triads - the 3, 3 note inversions in both hands. Start at C (CEG), move to the closest F (CFA), and keep going around the cycle. Then do it again at the next inversion (EGC).
    2) major scales - find a fingering chart, pick one key every day and run the scale two/three octaves in both hands.

    When have those two things down, then worry about jazz voicings, etc.

  16. #40

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    My parents insisted that I take piano lessons as a kid, and I did so for eight years. Even with the cardboard "keyboard" so I could get used to placing my fingers on the "keys." I gave recitals, but I grew to hate having to go to our basement and sit in a knotty pine room at an upright piano and practice every day.

    When I was in high school, rock-and-roll had erupted. The Beatles, the "British Invasion" and the San Francisco scene had everyone with a transistor radio to their ear (am I dating myself too much?). My neighbor and best friend had a guitar that he no longer played and I bought it from him for $10. I taught myself how to play it, and now I could take my instrument with me and not have to go downstairs to it!

    In college, I took a couple of music theory courses. I aced them, primarily because I'd had the experience of playing piano. As it's been noted here, the piano gives one a linear perspective on western music. Fretted instruments "stack" notes, in that it's possible to play exactly the same note on different strings in different positions. A very handy capability, but to me, one has to take a different approach to music theory. In jazz, we are constantly augmenting, diminishing and embellishing. If I want to play a D7sus4, for example, I can visually plot the notes out on a keyboard. But on a guitar, I have to know where the different notes of the base chord (D in this case) are located, and in what position. Then, I have to adjust the chord for the 7th and the suspended 4th, eliminating notes if needed.

    Bottom line for me: I'm grateful to have learned music theory on a keyboard and in a classroom, but I still had to work on applying it to the guitar. You might find it easier and faster to "cut out the middle man," as they say.