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  1. #1

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    I hope you are all well and staying safe.

    A friend of mine shared this chart with me and tried to explain it to me. (He received it from his guitar instructor. His teacher told him to focus on and practice the bottom chord progression, and to "surrender" to it rather than trying to understand all the theory behind it. I'd say I'm a late beginner with music theory, but my friend could not explain this in such a way that it made sense to me. Does this make sense to any of you, and if so, could you explain it in simple terms?

    Any help would be appreciated! Thank you in advance.
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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    the last row makes the point that there is at least one chord on every degree of the chromatic scale that can be explained in the key.

    in C:
    C (I chord)
    C7 (V for IV)
    Db7 (tritone sub V)
    Dm7 (ii)
    D7 (II i.e. V for V)
    Em7 (iii)
    E7 (III, i e. V for VI)
    F (IV)
    F7 (V for bVII)
    Gb7 (tritone sub V for IV)

    etc

  4. #3

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    Jamming all those chords in chromatic order is like taking a poem and arranging the words in alphabetical order.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Jamming all those chords in chromatic order is like taking a poem and arranging the words in alphabetical order.
    It's not for playing, it's for information.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz
    It's not for playing, it's for information.
    yea, but OP mentioned the (probably misunderstood) instruction to "practice the progression"

  7. #6

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    It does mention that they are chromatic diminished 7th chords, so:

    C
    C#dim7 (or Db dim7)
    Dm7
    D#dim7
    Em7, etc

    I show that to my students too, as a way of understanding the diminished 7th chord, how it doesn't belong to the key but can be used to harmonise the chromatic bass notes. So, whenever you have a chromatic bass note, the diminished 7th is your friend.

    Note also that the dim 7 is also functioning as a rootless secondary dominant:

    C# dim 7 = C# E G Bb
    Rootless A7b9 = C# E G Bb

    So each dim7 is acting as a V7b9 of the chord to follow.

    Well, that's my understanding of the pdf, but it could certainly have been written out more clearly!

    PS I actually misread it! But the above is still useful

  8. #7

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    Yes, Rob, Joe Pass made excellent use of those chromatic mis-named diminished chords. A real diminished is rare, usually 1 dim or b3 dim in standards.

  9. #8

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    Those are the dominants and the chromatic approach chords to the chords that occur naturally in C. They have also added the alterations for each chord that naturally occurs in C.
    Last edited by rintincop; 11-25-2020 at 06:22 PM.

  10. #9

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    OK..explain it in "simple terms" ,,ahh not really...

    Lets start with the term "diatonic harmony" if this is new to you..I suggest you read up on it..lots of info online..its the study of the major scale and the chords in it and how they relate to each other.

    the chart is showing variations (substitutions/alterations/chord movement) of the basic nature of the chords found in the major scale

    so for the C major scale the chords (triads) that are embedded in it are (I am not showing any "four note" chords-Major7 minor7 in this for simplicity..these chords use the formula 1 3 5 7 notes found in the scale)

    CMA Dmi Emi FMA GMA Ami B diminished

    it is important that you understand how these chords are in the major scale before you try and understand more advanced "theory" like substitutions..alterations and so on

    all these chords are triads...that is they use the First(root) Third and Fifth note of the chord

    so looking at the CMA scale

    C D E F G A B
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7

    The notes in the CMaj triad are C E G..the 1 3 5 notes

    now every chord in the scale uses this formula 1 3 5

    so for the Dminor chord the first note would be D (the root) so you now move the numbers of the scale tones to begin on the D note

    D E F G A B C
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7

    and you find the 1 3 5 notes D F A and these are the notes in the D minor chord-(triad)

    and you do this process for each chord (NOTE: another way to see/understand this (harmonization of a scale) is: its every other note in the scale)

    If this is new to you or a bit confusingI would spend some time actually writing the scale out and breaking down which chords are in it and
    what notes are in each chord..you will begin to recognize patterns forming at some point and it will make alot more sense

    Now one thing that confuses many are the terms Chord vs Scale

    the tones of the chord are found in the scale ..

    the point of confusion happens for many when they apply the formula 1 3 5 to chords in other keys and sharp and flat notes are introduced in the chord formulas.

    I wont go on for now...but hope this helps a bit...

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    It does mention that they are chromatic diminished 7th chords, so:

    C
    C#dim7 (or Db dim7)
    Dm7
    D#dim7
    Em7, etc

    I show that to my students too, as a way of understanding the diminished 7th chord, how it doesn't belong to the key but can be used to harmonise the chromatic bass notes. So, whenever you have a chromatic bass note, the diminished 7th is your friend.
    In the 70s a friend had a conflict for his lesson with Al Turay in Seattle so I took the time slot. At that time I only knew cowboy chords, barr chords and licks. Al gave me some basic 4-note chords and an exercise of an 8-bar progression using dim7 chords and and one augmented chord to create a chromatic bass line. Unfortunately, I didn’t continue with him, but that one lesson stuck with me as it seemed to capture so much of the essence of jazz harmony. I think I still have that lesson squirreled away somewhere.

    Edit—I did a quick search of videos featuring Al Turay and found this album:

    He’s channeling Charlie Christian. I think he was *the* guy for jazz guitar lessons in Seattle at the time. I wish I’d stuck with him.
    Last edited by KirkP; 11-25-2020 at 05:09 PM.

  12. #11

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    If you see, for example, a sequence like Cmaj7 Eb7 Ab7 Db7 Cmaj7, you might notice that the 7th chords are tritone subs for Cmaj7 A7 D7 G7. Then, if you played on the latter set of changes while the piano played the former set, you'd nail the sound of tritone subs.

    As far as the first part of this page, those are the chords made by all white keys.

    I'd suggest Warren Nunes' grouping.

    There are two types of chords, per Warren.

    Type I Cmaj7 Em7 Gmaj7#11 (not really in the scale, but iirc this is how he taught it) Am7

    Type II Dm7 Fmaj7 G7 Am7 (double duty) and Bm7b5.

    Within each type all of the chords are freely interchangeable. That turns out to be a very useful thing to know to get certain sounds.

    Now, for the second part of the page, the idea is that V7's resolve to I's. And, you can extend that VI7 resolving to II7 and so forth. So, the teacher took the basic white-key chords and added in the chord that could go "in front" of each one and resolve to it. So, G7 resolves to Cmaj7. A7 resolves to Dm and so forth. It's relevant because a lot of standard tunes use those movements. And, learning to hear them is very helpful, because it will allow you to figure out the harmony to tunes on the fly, more easily.

    Then, in the last part, he adds in all the tritone subs for the 7th chords. Play Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 and then Dm7 Db7 Cmaj7 to hear that sound. You may notice that G7 and Db7 have two notes in common. The tritone substitution is also commonplace in standards and worth being able to hear and understand.

  13. #12

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    I would draw the first row of arrows pointing up instead of down

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by wolflen
    OK..explain it in "simple terms" ,,ahh not really...

    Lets start with the term "diatonic harmony" if this is new to you..I suggest you read up on it..lots of info online..its the study of the major scale and the chords in it and how they relate to each other.

    the chart is showing variations (substitutions/alterations/chord movement) of the basic nature of the chords found in the major scale

    so for the C major scale the chords (triads) that are embedded in it are (I am not showing any "four note" chords-Major7 minor7 in this for simplicity..these chords use the formula 1 3 5 7 notes found in the scale)

    CMA Dmi Emi FMA GMA Ami B diminished

    it is important that you understand how these chords are in the major scale before you try and understand more advanced "theory" like substitutions..alterations and so on

    all these chords are triads...that is they use the First(root) Third and Fifth note of the chord

    so looking at the CMA scale

    C D E F G A B
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7

    The notes in the CMaj triad are C E G..the 1 3 5 notes

    now every chord in the scale uses this formula 1 3 5

    so for the Dminor chord the first note would be D (the root) so you now move the numbers of the scale tones to begin on the D note

    D E F G A B C
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7

    and you find the 1 3 5 notes D F A and these are the notes in the D minor chord-(triad)

    and you do this process for each chord (NOTE: another way to see/understand this (harmonization of a scale) is: its every other note in the scale)

    If this is new to you or a bit confusingI would spend some time actually writing the scale out and breaking down which chords are in it and
    what notes are in each chord..you will begin to recognize patterns forming at some point and it will make alot more sense

    Now one thing that confuses many are the terms Chord vs Scale

    the tones of the chord are found in the scale ..

    the point of confusion happens for many when they apply the formula 1 3 5 to chords in other keys and sharp and flat notes are introduced in the chord formulas.

    I wont go on for now...but hope this helps a bit...
    Let's add that you will notice, if you look, similarities among some of the chords. Extending them up another third will clarify this idea: the llm and IV are similar sounds, called sub-dominant, the I, iiim and vim are in the tonic family, and the V7 and vii dim share the tritone, thus are dominant sounds. Effectively (or functionally), within each family either chord will function. Differences are mainly in the bass notes, but the harmonies work. Building notes of a major scale up in thirds for 4 notes will really show this more clearly. I'm glad you pointed out the importance of the harmonized diatonic scale, Bill Leavitt showed me that when I studied with him, it opened a lot of doors.

  15. #14
    Thank you for the help everyone. There is a LOT of good information and I realize I truly am a beginner (but it gives me something to work towards!).

    The replies helped me understand I need to go back and review "diatonic harmonies" and progress from there.

    Thanks again!

  16. #15

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    Could Someone Explain this To Me?

    You must be joking :-)

  17. #16

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    my friend could not explain this in such a way that it made sense to me
    I think it's the teacher who needs to explain it, not your friend!