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  1. #1

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    Wats up everybody. I have been getting drop 2 and 3 inversions under my fingers recently. There's material online to view the voicings for most of the chords. I was even able to raise or lower the 5th on the dom 7th inversions and get them all to work. The thing I'm wondering is if there are viable inversions for b9 and #9 dom 7 chords. Because those are good chords. Do you have any diagrams for them, or do you have personal knowledge of them?

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint 55
    Wats up everybody. I have been getting drop 2 and 3 inversions under my fingers recently. There's material online to view the voicings for most of the chords. I was even able to raise or lower the 5th on the dom 7th inversions and get them all to work. The thing I'm wondering is if there are viable inversions for b9 and #9 dom 7 chords. Because those are good chords. Do you have any diagrams for them, or do you have personal knowledge of them?
    1. Go up a third to the m7b5 chord and think of it as a rootless dominant 9th.
    2. Raise or lower the 5th and 9th.

    Ex: Em7b5 (C9) with altered 5th and 9ths.

    Code:
    ||---|b5-|-5-|#5-|
    ||---|b9-|-9-|#9-|
    ||---|---|b7-|---|
    ||---|-3-|---|---|
    ||---|---|---|---|
    ||---|---|---|---|

  4. #3
    Awesome thanks. I'm familiar with those ideas.

  5. #4

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    For 4 note voicings of 9th chords there are 3 possible structural variants:

    A. 1 3 b7 b9 .......... 1 3 b7 #9

    B. 3 5 b7 b9 .......... 3 5 b7 #9

    C. 1 5 b7 b9 ........... 1 5 b7 #9

    This is the basic template to explore but not every voicing/inversion is playable or functions with clarity.

  6. #5
    Thanks for the input. That's a thorough way to look at it. I've noticed that although they can be formulated they won't necessarily be playable like you said.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint 55
    Wats up everybody. I have been getting drop 2 and 3 inversions under my fingers recently. There's material online to view the voicings for most of the chords. I was even able to raise or lower the 5th on the dom 7th inversions and get them all to work. The thing I'm wondering is if there are viable inversions for b9 and #9 dom 7 chords. Because those are good chords. Do you have any diagrams for them, or do you have personal knowledge of them?

    If I understand the question, and I'm not sure I do, I would suggest starting with any 7th voicing and raising the root a half step.

    Then, again starting from the basic 7th chord, raising the root a m3.

    Start, say, with xx2313. Raise the root a half step. xx2323 (a familiar diminished grip). Then raise the root a minor third xx2343.

    Then play xx5556 and do the same thing. Then xx8988. Then xx 10 12 11 12.

    Some of them are awkward to play and some don't sound as good as others. For example, I thought xx5856 wasn't so great. But, when I sandwiched it between xx9899 and xx3554, I thought it was okay.

    You may find that you don't like 7#9. Consider, for example, 5x5658. There is a C# and then the C above it. The chord sounds smoother if you raise the E to an F. Or to F#.

    For players that are trying to learn these chords without knowing the notes/intervals involved, well, it can be done but maybe it's easier if you know that stuff.

  8. #7
    Wow, that's an easy trick. Thanks. Great info here.

  9. #8
    I guess I better get my half dim inversions solid because they're the same as minor 6 and then can be used for the rootless dom 7 alterations as well.

  10. #9

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    Minor 6th/m7b5 are super useful for straightahead jazz guitar

    If you want a something a little more exotic, work on inverting the guitar voicing

    C E Bb D#
    D# Bb C E
    E C D# Bb
    Bb D# E C

    hours of fun

    This sort of thing is a good brainteaser and can lead to some unfamiliar and interesting (and stretchy) voicings.

  11. #10

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    BTW, be a smarty and work out your minor scales around the drop 2 positions

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Minor 6th/m7b5 are super useful for straightahead jazz guitar

    If you want a something a little more exotic, work on inverting the guitar voicing

    C E Bb D#
    D# Bb C E
    E C D# Bb
    Bb D# E C

    hours of fun

    This sort of thing is a good brainteaser and can lead to some unfamiliar and interesting (and stretchy) voicings.
    I was dreading doing that, but I guess I have to now.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint 55
    I was dreading doing that, but I guess I have to now.
    TBH I can’t be arsed myself

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint 55
    I was dreading doing that, but I guess I have to now.
    If you're at a level where you need to get m7b5 together, you need to do that long before you go to exercises with stretchy inversions.

    My suggestion is to do something like this:

    Using the highest 4 strings only:

    Play C7 in four positions. Start with xx2313. Then, move the note on each string up the neck to the next note in the chord. So, on the D string you go from the second fret E to the fifth fret G. You'll end up with xx5556. Do that twice more. Write them down.

    Those are your four basic 7th chord voicings. Now, just a bit of theory. 7th chords are root, 3, 5, b7. Always know which note is which in each voicing. If you don't know the fingerboard well enough yet, drill it until you do.

    To get m7, lower the third.
    maj7 raise the b7
    maj6 lower the b7
    minmaj lower the third and raise the b7
    m7b5, lower the third and fifth
    m6b5 lower the third, fifth and b7 (this is, btw, a diminished chord, and is usually notated as such)
    7b5 ... etc.

    That gets you most of the chords you'd ever desperately need, in four places on the neck. It also gives you a way of remembering them, because you can always relate them to the underlying 7th chord positions.

    You need to know them in 12 keys, and several of those keys require knowing two names. You won't have time to think, "oh, G# is the same as Ab and I know Ab so ... ".

    No shortcut.

    Here's how to practice it. Get IrealPro. Pick an easy tune at a slow tempo. Say, All of Me. Set it for 13 repeats and change the key by a fourth each chorus. First chord is a Cmaj7. Play it in one of the four places you know it. Next chord is E7. Play it as close as possible to the Cmaj7. Etc. Next time thru the tune, play them all in the next place on the neck.

    Later, you can move on to voicings on the middle four strings. Chuck Wayne, whose system this is, also did lowest four strings, but I don't find them as useful.

    Still later you can find voicings spread out among 6 strings -- it will be easier by then, because you'll know the fingerboard and your notes.

    For the fancy stuff, I recommend learning the voicings by learning chord melody, one song at a time. When you get a grip you like, figure out where the root is and learn it in every key.

    If you're anything like me, the trick will be to avoid distraction while you work on this.

  15. #14
    Thanks for the write up. That's where I am. I have dom 7 and minor 7/major 6 drop 2 inversions all memorized. I do exercises with them and integrate them into tunes and chord melody. I started when my teacher showed me last spring though, so I haven't had that much time for everything to sit with me. Plus I want to learn all the chords that I use. Minor is taking more work - half dims, alt 7s, tonic minors.

    I noticed if you take the drop 2 voicings on strings 4-1 and drop the note on string 1 to string 6, you automatically have the drop 3 voicing for that chord. So that's easy. Next order of business is to work chords with the bass note on the 5th string. I'm doing the drop 3 voicings. You think learning inversions utilizing strings 5-2 are useful?

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clint 55
    Thanks for the write up. That's where I am. I have dom 7 and minor 7/major 6 drop 2 inversions all memorized. I do exercises with them and integrate them into tunes and chord melody. I started when my teacher showed me last spring though, so I haven't had that much time for everything to sit with me. Plus I want to learn all the chords that I use. Minor is taking more work - half dims, alt 7s, tonic minors.

    I noticed if you take the drop 2 voicings on strings 4-1 and drop the note on string 1 to string 6, you automatically have the drop 3 voicing for that chord. So that's easy. Next order of business is to work chords with the bass note on the 5th string. I'm doing the drop 3 voicings. You think learning inversions utilizing strings 5-2 are useful?
    First a caveat. I'm in the minority. I have never found it useful to think about Drop anything. Apparently, I learned all those voicings without labeling them that way. I learned what my teacher called "muted string chords" like 3x231x. Lots of those. 'He did it by showing me a chord melody and writing dots on grids with the root circled for each chord. My job was to learn them in every position (that is, know the names as I slid the grip around). Over the years, as you read things and hear/see other guitarists you start adding (stealing) chords to your repertoire. I did that this weekend, while I watched Joe Giglio (fine player and singer out of NYC) play Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow. Thanks Joe!

    Then, with a new teacher, Chuck Wayne's system.

    Will the voicings on the inner strings be helpful? It depends what you're trying to do at the moment. Bear in mind, a simple voicing like xx3433 can be played as x8978x, so if you use one, why not the other? The more you know the better.

  17. #16

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    Why don't you just google them? There's a hundred diagrams! Here's some for Ab7#9 on nearly every fret:

    Ab7#9 - Google Search

    Don't forget you don't need to play every note. Some of them are tricky especially if you have a melody note on top as well. Just play the ones you can and that sound good.

  18. #17
    Okie dokie