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  1. #1

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    Hi all,

    I imagine this has been asked before in one way or another, but I couldn't find any threads.

    When do you class a scaled or chord as learnt? For example, the fingerings for a chord can often be learned and practice to a usable degree in a couple of hours, but using it when sight comping would be a different story. Of course, I could consider the chord 'learnt' if I could sight comp with it, but then there's a difference between comping basic triads at 120bpm and seeing a multi-altered scary number chord appear at 250bpm +.

    Is there a benchmark for this stuff?


    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
  3. #2

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    I will go as far as saying. When you can equate the key with the chord and and its position in the key. This will lead you to other theory avenue's.

  4. #3

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    A scale is learned when you just rip off a terrific solo without any thought. Then, later, somebody transcribes it and points out which scales you used.

    A chord is learned different ways by different players. I like to memorize the individual notes and common grips. Then I can grab a few notes when I need them.

  5. #4

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    When you play pitch sets from them to form lines and phrases
    in live performance without distinguishing what they are called,
    not having to know what they are made of... when internalized.

  6. #5

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    For me, I have to keep practicing and learning and relearning. So for me, I'm pretty sure never.

  7. #6

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    When you can hear it and recognize it instantly, and use it in real time on a gig.

    Not being snarky, but if you aren't sure whether you have learned something, you haven't learned it.

  8. #7

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    when you go beyond the practice of it...and it becomes a welcome tool that can do more than one job...

    and "knowing" how to use it in more than one way..

    its not isolated and can be part of an free form improvisation or a written composition

    you can "hear" it in several different progression..and know what other chords/melodic patterns will work with it and how that will "sound"

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by starjasmine
    When you can hear it and recognize it instantly, and use it in real time on a gig.

    Not being snarky, but if you aren't sure whether you have learned something, you haven't learned it.
    There is always more, it's unending...

    This guy keeps getting better

  10. #9

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    Well this seems to be more of a technique than theory question, but you have to learn, practice, master - and maintain.

    In terms of a benchmark for jazz guitar, or a codified, universal, standard benchmark - no.

    when it comes to scales, chords, arpeggios there are a good number of graduated methods hither and yon. You can use those and/or modify them to your preferences.

    But when it comes to improv practice patterns and skills it’s more art than science, more diffuse than solidified. But there is some commonality/repeatability, and style/period factor in.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshd
    When do you class a scale, mode, arpeggio, or chord as learnt?
    SMAC are four tools in your toolbox.
    The tune of interest is the workpiece on your workbench.

    SMAC is "learnt" when you:
    1. Know that a tool is required,
    2. Know which tool is called for,
    3. Know where the tool is kept,
    4. Know how to use the tool effectively.

    If your ear is satisfied that your chord and line are proper, then you are a musician, as composer and performer.

    1. Artistry & Experience
    2. Artistry & Experience
    3. Study, Organisation & Memorisation
    4. Continual Practice & Repetition

    Lord Kelvin:
    “When you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind; it may be the beginning of knowledge, but you have scarcely, in your thoughts advanced to the stage of science.”

    So, yes, a metronome is a useful tool of measure to a musician with regards to technical prowess. The ultimate measurement is that required to perform the piece of music. The metronome can help you achieve this goal and inform you when you have "arrived".

    However, without using the tempo of the piece to be played as a limit, one is firmly entrenched in the realm of Wankerville... where wannabee virtuosi compete with other other wannabees, sequestered in their bedrooms, eyes glued to YouTube videos of other wankers and gitards using compressors and hammer-ons and pull-offs in combination with a double-decker pedalboard that takes two to carry, to play the same repetitive riff increasingly faster and faster until their mothers scream and pull the plug...

    The words "fast", "faster" and "fastest" tell it all.
    Last edited by StringNavigator; 05-24-2021 at 05:50 AM.