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I have played block chords for many years but I can't recall if Barry Harris remembered to tell students that not only can you block chord the "Bb6 dim" block chord group over G-7 (ii in F) , but that you can also use the the "F6 dim" block chord group over G-7 (ii).
Last edited by rintincop; 07-02-2020 at 02:59 PM.
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07-02-2020 02:03 PM
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My example, I needed to continue using the F6 diminished scale block chord harmony on the G-7 to avoid the ugly (imo) diminished sound under the 9th in the melody of G-7. The Bb6 dim scale harmony, the default for G-7, would have created a diminished chord on beat one of measure two, but I wanted the beauty of the pristine 9th over G-7.
Last edited by rintincop; 07-02-2020 at 02:59 PM.
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Note the use of the "C7b13 diminished" block chord scale for the C7 chord. That b13 diminished scale harmony is often overlooked in favor of C#-6 diminished block chord scale harmony (alt) over C7.
"C7b13 diminished scale" is per both Barry Harris and Mark Levine.
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Originally Posted by rintincop
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Originally Posted by rintincop
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C7b13dim scale is:
C D E F G Ab Bb B
This enables alternating diminished chords with an unaltered C7 chord . That's important. Barry Harris said he noticed it later in his career and Levine also covers it in his Drop 2 (block chord) book.
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Originally Posted by bleakanddivine
But in real time playing, carrying over the F6 is a simpler action or thought process.
F6 dim scale harmony can conveniently work on G-7, because we know that F6 dim scale harmony works on Bb6... thus also G-7.
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Originally Posted by rintincop
But the b9 in your example can't be borrowed from the diminished chord because it doesn't appear in it?
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Originally Posted by rintincop
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Yes, in Howard Reses's book he calls called the C7dim scale. But I have heard Barry also call it the C7b13 scale, which makes the name more descriptive. He even it calls such in one of the videos on YouTube.
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Ok I think the C7-dim scale is the one that gets used the least? I seem to remember Barry saying he doesn’t like it that much, but maybe that’s a false recollection. He seemed much more into C7b5-dim, which TBH I have yet to explore in any depth at all.
Re. dim on a m9th. Yeah I’m not a huge fan of this sound either. It works well to play the dim chord and then borrow the note on a m7 chord, makes for very nice voiceleading where that note sticks around for long enough like in Autumn in New York, or the first note of the second bar of Polkadots, or something.
Oblique motion sounds good with the Barry harris scales.
(There’s some nice tricks to smooth out that old school parallel block motion.)
TBH in most cases I’ll use major 6th dim with borrrowed notes as you say in the OP. There’s an awful lot of options just in the key centres maj6-dim before you even start factoring in the other scales.
I like the borrowing notes from the 6-dim scale into the diminished.Last edited by christianm77; 07-02-2020 at 06:33 PM.
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I just tried the polkadots phrase your way (with drop 2’s) - sounded great. Did it the simpler way (just F6-dim) and that sounds good too.
I also like going from the dim with the A in the soprano to the Gm9 too (Bbmaj-6 dim)
I often find 11ths and 9ths (which are of course common in standards over II chords) to be a bit tricky. Sometimes it sounds great to have a dim. But as you say the F6-dim is a solid option here.
i think the pivoting between a dim and the F6 with the A held in the soprano in bar two sounds nice too and is a classic Barry sort of thing.
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So I suppose my preferred option is to use that A note as a junction between the F and Bb scales
I go F6 to Gm9 with the A in the soprano.
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Then borrow the D in the soprano of the dim chord of the F6-dim scale to take us back to I?
lots of ways to do it though
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Ohhh, you mean the C7Bdim7 scale.
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Good name too.
Looking at the Howard Reese book and not seeing much of play "G-6 dim scale" harmony block chords over C7 (+4)
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Originally Posted by rintincop
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Originally Posted by rintincop
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That's a perfectly fine analysis too. I just want chord tones for G-7 with the A in the melody, perhaps more to the point than a borrowing idea. I think a player using Barry's rules needs to be able to negotiate in and out of the rules. He also teaches diatonic block chording (deluxe version uses chromatic approaches instead of diminished) which would also cover this exact situation: G-7 with A in the melody with Bb D F A voiced from the bottom up (not a diminished voicing) . There is a new video that covers the diatonic block chords with chromatic approach
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