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  1. #1

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    Hi

    There is a phrase from, this book I don't understand, and I don't think he has explained it earlier in the book. On page 97:

    "Dominant seventh chords can only be found on the dominant (V7) pitch in each key. These are the most important pointer chords to the key area and the tonic chord. This makes perfect sense as the dominant pitch points to tonic, and the other pitches of a dominant seventh chord point to the other pitches of a tonic triad".

    So, what does it mean that a pitch "points to" another? Does it mean the same as "resolves to"? I can hear that, after establishing the tonic chord, and playing the dominant pitch, you sort of expect to hear the tonic afterwards, but I thought that might be after hearing zillions of blues songs ending in V7 - I. Does "point to" mean that it creates an expectation of hear that pitch/chord it points to? Do certain pitches create expectations of other pitches regardless of context, other than the established tonic chord? I don't understand. Any help is greatly appreciated.

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  3. #2
    I have no idea, honestly , but he is awesome at answering emails. Shoot him one about this, and please update when you get clarification. Thanks.

  4. #3

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    I think you are right about supposing it means "resolves to". The other terminology what is in use is "gravitates to" which is a bit more expressive when talking single notes and not harmonies, what are more like "resolving to" I never heard the "points to" btw before, and it is not a good sign the author had felt there is a need to reinvent the terminology to explain this very basic thing.

    In the book there should be an explanation that where each degree of the major scale gravitates to, so you can understand this statement in context. If there is no such a prerequisite explanation, you are right it is hard to interpret that statement. I also wondering, if this is the page 97, what could be the information on the previous almost hundred pages?

    Also in jazz it is very disturbing to state "only can found", because they found literally everywhere. I know what the author meant to say the only position is the V where the role is the dominant - tonic cadence is a final closure, but this not the same as stating that the they only can found there. In the context of major scale it is true, that dominant seven can be found only in V th degree.

  5. #4
    Thank you for your help.

    Regarding "can only be found", the context of the quote is a chapter called diatonic harmony, and the subsection is major harmony, so he is speaking exclusively in the context of classical major diatonic harmony. I might follow the suggestion to e-mail the author. I had actually assumed it was common terminology that I had missed (being self taught/hobbyist), but now I think maybe the author might just be an idealist who is speaking from his own experience of the music, and has let that guide his terminology as much as standard conventions.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bautastein

    "Dominant seventh chords can only be found on the dominant (V7) pitch in each key.
    For major and harmonic minor keys. Melodic minors have two dom7s at IV and V.

    These are the most important pointer chords to the key area and the tonic chord.
    True, but 'their' I chord may not be the tonic. But they do indicate a tonal centre. So the A7 in Em7-A7-Dm-G7-C points to the key of Dm and the G7 to C major.

    This makes perfect sense as the dominant pitch points to tonic
    Yes. At least, the I chord in its own key (see above).

    and the other pitches of a dominant seventh chord point to the other pitches of a tonic triad".
    Yes, they want to resolve (in the sense what the ear expects to happen musically) to the tonic's pitches. So, for a G7, the pitches want to resolve G-G, B-C, D-E or D-C, F-E or F-G. If the chords are more complex you can usually work it out fairly easily. Even in a blues.

    Mind you, in one of those complex modern tunes where the chords seem very random, this may not apply. In which case it doesn't matter :-)

  7. #6

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    In Iris, for example, the C7 doesn't really belong anywhere and neither does the Eb7 in bar 6, although later it could be seen as an A7 sub (going to Dm). It also turns up at the end but it doesn't resolve to anything recognisable. But it all sounds pretty good

    Question about Bert Ligon's Jazz Theory Resources-cover-large_file-png

  8. #7
    Thank you. So, we have established that "points to" means the same as "resolves to", or "wants to resolve to". He probably figured that would be obvious for anyone but a noob like me...

    So, I'm trying to understand this, and I think I got it now. I tried to play a G7, with no further context, and then listen to what each note resolves to. I can hear now that the G sounds stable, while the B strongly wants to resolve to C. I can hear that the D wants to resolve to C, and the F resolves to G. I can not hear that the D resolves to E, nor F to the E (as indicated in ragman's post), is this something that happens in more context?

    I hear that if I play a plain major triad, the third pitch (within the chord) does not resolve to the fourth pitch, but if I add a flat seventh, the third resolves to the fourth. I think that might be because it is a perfect fifth above the flat seventh.

    I'm not good with terminology here, so I hope that was understandable.

    Do I understand this correctly?

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bautastein
    . I can hear now that the G sounds stable, while the B strongly wants to resolve to C. I can hear that the D wants to resolve to C, and the F resolves to G. I can not hear that the D resolves to E, nor F to the E (as indicated in ragman's post), is this something that happens in more context?
    Possibly, but not necessarily. I did say the D could resolve to C or E.

    Play G7 as 35346x and then C(M7) as x3545x. Unmistakable. Or try another key, like C7 to F. Or, even better, A7 to D (xo2223 - xx0232).

    Do I understand this correctly?
    Yes, but this is small stuff, don't sweat too much about it; it's not that important. Just get the general principle that dominants like to resolve because they have a sort of 'floaty' sound.

    Not that they always do, as we said, but in the middle of a piece it doesn't really matter. It's the piece as a whole that should hang together.

    ----------------------

    Do you know why, in Iris, the Eb7 is a sub for A7 when it comes before the second Dm? But not otherwise?

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Yes, but this is small stuff, don't sweat too much about it; it's not that important. Just get the general principle that dominants like to resolve because they have a sort of 'floaty' sound.
    Thank you for your help. Well, I think it's interesting, and it might help me reason about complex chords and resolutions which I'm not currently very good at.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Do you know why, in Iris, the Eb7 is a sub for A7 when it comes before the second Dm? But not otherwise?
    No, but as I might have revealed, most of this stuff is currently way above my head, I still haven't moved much beyond standard diatonic chords and triads. I haven't even gotten to progressions (in the book) yet. I can now move on with the book knowing that I understand the terminology. The "points to" expression occurs repeatedly there.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bautastein
    Hi

    There is a phrase from, this book I don't understand, and I don't think he has explained it earlier in the book. On page 97:

    "Dominant seventh chords can only be found on the dominant (V7) pitch in each key. These are the most important pointer chords to the key area and the tonic chord. This makes perfect sense as the dominant pitch points to tonic, and the other pitches of a dominant seventh chord point to the other pitches of a tonic triad".

    So, what does it mean that a pitch "points to" another? Does it mean the same as "resolves to"? I can hear that, after establishing the tonic chord, and playing the dominant pitch, you sort of expect to hear the tonic afterwards, but I thought that might be after hearing zillions of blues songs ending in V7 - I. Does "point to" mean that it creates an expectation of hear that pitch/chord it points to? Do certain pitches create expectations of other pitches regardless of context, other than the established tonic chord? I don't understand. Any help is greatly appreciated.
    Yep that is the idea, "points to" is the same as saying that it is expected to resolve to that note. V7 resolves to I, but each pitch also has an expected resolution. the 3rd of the dominant resolves to the 7th of the I (same pitch); the 5th of the dominant resolves to the 9th of the I (again its the same pitch), the 7th of the V7 to the 3rd of the I, and the 9th to the 5th of the tonic. This is not saying that it HAS to be this way each time but that is the expectation of where the pitches point to and substitutions and changes can be made for effect.

  12. #11
    That book is a great basic resource. Anyway, you really shouldn't be listening to people talk about it at length who don't even own it. I've personally emailed him a couple of times, and he's super nice. He doesn't know me from Adam.

    If somebody wants to compare it to some OTHER theory book they like better or something, after having actually read the book, fine. But listening to people go on and on , speculating about things they don't know anything about .....or criticizing a theory book for actually being a theory book?

    Ligon is a teacher and a theoretician, and he makes a distinction between true dominant 7th chords and major-minor 7th chords which don't function as a dominant, resolving down fourth. That's his prerogative I guess. I'm sure he also understands what most mean by the casual use of the word "dominant".

    I'd have to look at the section in question. Not familiar...

  13. #12
    Just skimming for 30 seconds or so, there's apparently much more use of the technology in chapter 3...

    Going to bed. Bert Ligon is legit folks. Buy the book.

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    May I ask you something? I've seen the Bert Ligon books. There's a PDF online here:

    (PDF) Bert Ligon - Jazz Theory Resources - I & II | Davit Sharikadze - Academia.edu

    Why are you approaching jazz from this very technical and theoretical viewpoint? There are far easier ways to learn jazz guitar, you know. Using a book like this is a really hard way, I promise you. For a start, it's not written for guitar.

    What is it you want to do, fundamentally?
    It's a theory text and not ONLY a playing method. For someone who claims to not think so much of theory, you rattle on about it more than anyone on the forum. Why don't you go to the telecaster thread and talk about how you don't like telecasters or something?

    Oh, but wait, that would be trolling...

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bautastein
    Hi

    "Dominant seventh chords can only be found on the dominant (V7) pitch in each key. These are the most important pointer chords to the key area and the tonic chord. This makes perfect sense as the dominant pitch points to tonic, and the other pitches of a dominant seventh chord point to the other pitches of a tonic triad".

    In my understanding, a faithful rewrite of the quoted sentence

    "(In the context of a major scale) Dominant seventh chord can only be found on the V degree of the key. This is the most important chord which resolves to the key, with other words resolves to the tonic chord. This makes sense, because each note within the dominant seventh chord on the V degree gravitates to (or leads to) a particular note in the tonic triad"

    ***

    Optional example:

    In the context of a C major scale:
    - B gravitates to (up) C
    - D gravitates to C
    - F gravitates to E (this is why also tonic sus 4 chord resolves to tonic triad, please refer to later chapter X)
    - G is either stable or gravitates to C

    So chord built on G, B, D, F resolves to chord built from C, E, G because each note inside the first chord gravitates to a particular note in the second chord. This way we explained the chord resolve to feeling by explaining it using a lower level (note, or melody level) gravitates to feeling.

    The reader can demonstrate this gravitate to feel via singing first the C major scale to establish the key, then singing the particular note, and try to feel what note(s) she/he like/wish to sing after. (The "gravitate to" term can be replaced with "leads to" although it is not entirely useful in case of from note G to note C.)
    Last edited by Gabor; 12-09-2019 at 02:39 AM.

  16. #15

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    Bautastein -

    May I ask you something? I've seen the Bert Ligon books. There's a PDF online here:

    (PDF) Bert Ligon - Jazz Theory Resources - I & II | Davit Sharikadze - Academia.edu

    Why are you approaching jazz from this very technical and theoretical viewpoint? There are far easier ways to learn jazz guitar, you know. Using a book like this is a really hard way, I promise you. For a start, it's not written for guitar.

    What is it you want to do, fundamentally?

  17. #16

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    Bert Ligon's is a great book.

    But te passage you quote is very basic for traditional harmony (that is it can be referred to almost anything starting from baroque in European music)

    Thank you. So, we have established that "points to" means the same as "resolves to", or "wants to resolve to". He probably figured that would be obvious for anyone but a noob like me...
    'pointing' here is probably obvious because it is 'direction of resolution' - it is a tool for making music move on and on))

    I can hear that, after establishing the tonic chord, and playing the dominant pitch, you sort of expect to hear the tonic afterwards, but I thought that might be after hearing zillions of blues songs ending in V7 - I.
    You hear it perfectly - it is not only chords, it like two areas/fucntions Tonic and Dominant .. there can be more chords belinging to that functions...

    As I describe it -- imagine you have a rubber band that is tied to a table and to a pencil on the other side, the more you stretch it the further the pencil is from a table, but at the same time the more is the tension backwards to the table. Until it reaches a critical point. This point and area make dominant.
    That makes Dominant function both sontrongly connected with Tonic but at the same time the most probable candidate for independence from it.

    Once that rubber band is broken that pencil itself may become a 'tonic'.
    This is what in music called 'key change' or ' modulation' - and the most common and expressive one was always a modulation to dominant key.

    That slightly reminds a solar system with its relations of tension.


    So, I'm trying to understand this, and I think I got it now. I tried to play a G7, with no further context, and then listen to what each note resolves to. I can hear now that the G sounds stable, while the B strongly wants to resolve to C. I can hear that the D wants to resolve to C, and the F resolves to G. I can not hear that the D resolves to E, nor F to the E (as indicated in ragman's post), is this something that happens in more context?
    It is ALL context.
    Out of context you can train your ear to hear any chord as stable eventually.

    As for specific resolution: it is common (and logical) to consider that half-step direction is stronger that whole-step (F to E, B to C).
    To hear it better try to play consequently only this notes against Tonic bass like
    C in the bass and F resolving to E in the melody
    C in the bass and F resolving to G in the melody

    In classical harmony Dom7th chord resolves to re-inforced Tonic interval/

    G bass goes to C bass
    B goes to C
    D goes to C
    F goes to E

    (Bass is treated separetly from other voices, so it should go to Tonic in that case)

    So you have three C's and just on E, and no G at all.

    And you hear perfectly right taht D does not go to E.


    Downward movement is often heard as more quicker for release. But it depends on context too.


    Another tip:

    7th chord came to 'life' as an alteration of a 4-voice triad.
    In classical triwad is in 4 voices: bass (separated) and 3 other voices. So as it is triad we have to double one voice.
    If we do G (bass) - b - d - g (doubling the root), then the melodic voice was moved down to increase tension to C major tonic chord 3rd (F to E)

    Originally dominant 7th chord was treated approximately in the same way as we now treat altered chords.

  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Bautastein -

    May I ask you something? I've seen the Bert Ligon books. There's a PDF online here:

    (PDF) Bert Ligon - Jazz Theory Resources - I & II | Davit Sharikadze - Academia.edu

    Why are you approaching jazz from this very technical and theoretical viewpoint? There are far easier ways to learn jazz guitar, you know. Using a book like this is a really hard way, I promise you. For a start, it's not written for guitar.

    What is it you want to do, fundamentally?
    I swear, you derail every thread . You just take over and talk, talk, talk. You very often talk VERY far beyond your knowledge. Talk about something you actually know about. You are an amateur noodler like many of the rest of us, honestly. Yet, you talk with great authority about playing real JAZZ, when we have plenty of gigging pros on the forum. Maybe let THEM talk about such things?

    There's no one in this thread, including me , who knows any more about these topics than Bert Ligon himself. He wrote a pretty great book here, which like many other great books on nonplaying topics, isn't expressly about PLAYING ONLY.

    You have no right to go on and on about these topics, having never READ the book. You didn't PURCHASE the book legally, and you're actually PROMOTING piracy and theft, by encouraging others to steal this book from an illegal source off of the Internet.

    You do all this while actually disparaging the author, who is highly respected teacher and who has a great respect for the actual traditions of jazz: like transcribing, learning by ear, like not boiling everything down to "What scale to play over changes" etc. etc. etc. He's also a jazz guitarist. If I had to guess, I would assume he plays better than all of the experts in this thread questioning what he wrote, without READING the book.

    Any real discussion on this topic should begin with a discussion of what Ligon himself says about such things in chapter 3, where he begins the discussion of the topic. It isn't purely a harmonic context. It begins with melodic guidelines.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    I swear, you derail every thread . You just take over and talk, talk, talk. You very often talk VERY far beyond your knowledge. Talk about something you actually know about. You are an amateur noodler like many of the rest of us, honestly. Yet, you talk with great authority about playing real JAZZ, when we have plenty of gigging pros on the forum. Maybe let THEM talk about such things?

    There's no one in this thread, including me , who knows any more about these topics than Bert Ligon himself. He wrote a pretty great book here, which like many other great books on nonplaying topics, isn't expressly about PLAYING ONLY.

    You have no right to go on and on about these topics, having never READ the book. You didn't PURCHASE the book legally, and you're actually PROMOTING piracy and theft, by encouraging others to steal this book from an illegal source off of the Internet.

    You do all this while actually disparaging the author, who is highly respected teacher and who has a great respect for the actual traditions of jazz: like transcribing, learning by ear, like not boiling everything down to "What scale to play over changes" etc. etc. etc. He's also a jazz guitarist. If I had to guess, I would assume he plays better than all of the experts in this thread questioning what he wrote, without READING the book.

    Any real discussion on this topic should begin with a discussion of what Ligon himself says about such things in chapter 3, where he begins the discussion of the topic. It isn't purely a harmonic context. It begins with melodic guidelines.
    You're insane. Where have I disparaged the author? Show me.

    Somebody should put a stop to you, Matt. If you have something personal to say to me use a PM. Don't come here with your confrontational hate messages which are grossly inaccurate anyway. It diminishes this forum which is generally a nice place.

    Either that or put me on ignore. That's what it's for. Then you'll never be bothered with me again. You should really examine yourself closely. There's a limit.

  20. #19

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    Bautastein -

    I'm sorry you have come here to this. It's not what generally happens.

  21. #20

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    And just so we're quite clear, I suggest you listen to this. I think I'm going to post it every time this nonsense comes up!


  22. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    You're insane. Where have I disparaged the author? Show me.

    Somebody should put a stop to you, Matt. If you have something personal to say to me use a PM. Don't come here with your confrontational hate messages which are grossly inaccurate anyway. It diminishes this forum which is generally a nice place.

    Either that or put me on ignore. That's what it's for. Then you'll never be bothered with me again. You should really examine yourself closely. There's a limit.
    You're not privately posting links to pirated books.

  23. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    And just so we're quite clear, I suggest you listen to this. I think I'm going to post it every time this nonsense comes up!

    Do you mean in PLACE of the number of words you usually post in text form on theory topics? Or in ADDITION to?

    If you mean the former, I would say kudos. I think it's very sound judgment and a better use of everyone's time.

    I personally don't think the people who don't care much for theory should post about it all the time. You post more words in discussion of theory than anyone else on the forum as far as I can tell. That doesn't sound much like someone who doesn't like to talk theory?

    In your audio, You talk about theory people who can't play. Can I ask a couple of questions?

    Are you talking about players like Reg? Are you talking about Bert Ligon, Mark Levine or their best students?

    As for Ligon , he posts more transcribed examples (in notation) from the greatest players of all time than ANY other author I personally know of. He advocates listening to the music, transcribing , and learning basic language. All of this would be understood by anyone who's ever actually READ his books. All of this is highly offensive and insulting , especially in the context of your skimming over illegally stolen versions of his work.

    Ragman: "what's the point of a theory book, if no one's going to PLAY music?" That's beside the point, because it's not the purpose of the theory book. This is not a "how to play" thread. That wasn't the OP, and you're far off-topic by taking it there. He has question about the book .

  24. #23

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    To get back on topic, it definitely seems to me that Ligon is saying that a dominant chord, when it's actually functioning as a V, pulls most clearly to I. It "wants" to resolve. What's the old story about how they got a sleepy Mozart out of bed?

    That's pretty basic stuff, so my guess is Bert goes somewhere a little heavier after that.

  25. #24

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    How do you pronounce "Ligon?"

  26. #25

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    The book is not 'pirated' or illegal. It's on a bona fide academic website.

    Academia.edu | About

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    To get back on topic, it definitely seems to me that Ligon is saying that a dominant chord, when it's actually functioning as a V, pulls most clearly to I. It "wants" to resolve.
    Quite, which is exactly what I said in reply to the OP. Very basic stuff.

    By his own admission the OP is completely new to this. But the book he's using is highly technical and advanced. That's why he's come here and asked about a basic question. I think the book is obviously too advanced for him. Not that I'm suggesting he doesn't use it, it's up to him. I just think he'd make better progress with something simpler, that's all.

    And if we want to drive people away from the forum, these sorts of personal confrontations, complete with SHOUTING, is just the way to do it.

    (Not you, Jeffery, your head is on very straight :-))

  28. #27

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    With only 4 posts, I'm not ready to make an assumption as to what the OP knows or doesn't. Actually, I can infer from a few posts that the OP's background might be in classical harmony, which is why the terminology of "points to" was new and confusing, as classical theory has a very standardized set of vocabulary. Jazz kinda doesn't.

  29. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    What is it you want to do, fundamentally?
    That is a very good question, regardless of the discussion that ensued about whether the book is any good. While it seems clear to me that Bert Ligon knows what he's talking about, it might be that it's not the book for me.

    Let's hope I don't bore you with too many details, then. I started playing violin when I was seven, and according to the adults I was good at it (for my age), but at around 11-12 y/o, I got bored. I started playing guitar instead, cause I wanted to play rock and blues. Unlike with the violin, with which I had been playing sheet music with a professional teacher, I just sat down on my own, and played a whole lot of notes almost at random searching for some pattern, and figured it out after a while. I think it might have been because I had played a monophonic instrument for so many years, that I got real good at playing/composing/improvising melodies, and got an alright sense of rhythm, but I wasn't very good with chords and progressions.

    Now I'm 45 years old, have hardly touched a music theory book in my life, and still feel that chords and progressions are my weakest point. While I don't play jazz, I do gravitate towards the complex chords that are common in jazz, that can be tense and ambiguous, but at the same time so beautiful and melodic. Unpredictable and whimsical, yet they make so perfect sense when done right. How do they do that? Whenever I start to dabble in more complex chords, which I love, I often feel like hunting in the dark, unlike with melodies where my intuition helps me realize the notes in my head. So, just like I see theory courses teach people melodic concepts that I spent years figuring out on my own, I thought maybe it might help my chords understanding to bite the bullet and start learning some theory, and that jazz theory might be a place to start, since I have been admiring how many jazz players handle chords and progressions so effortlessly and effectively. I chose Bert Ligon's book for two reasons:

    1) From most of the posts in this forum it seems his books are highly respected.
    2) It starts at the beginning, with the most fundamental diatonic stuff, only to then progress towards the advanced and jazz-specific concepts.

    If it's true that I'm actually making it harder for myself this way, I'm open for suggestions! This does not necessarily mean that Bert Ligon's book is bad, it just means it might not be the best way forward for me. But for now I'm happy with the book, and it has already helped me hear what's really happening "inside" the chords, by showing me what to listen to.

  30. #29

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    Thanks, that was a great post. You did say you were very new to it all but it seems you probably have an excellent background for assimilating the necessary theory concepts on chords, etc.

    I can only wish you all the best. And do come back if other questions arise, which they probably will. I'm sure we'll all do our best at answering them. Good luck - and that really was a terrific post. Brilliant!

  31. #30
    So, Bert Ligon has answered! He confirms what we have already established regarding what "points to" means. I can see that I might have come across as a bit more of a noob than I really am. The fact that V7 resolves to the tonic chord is something I figured out about thirty years ago when I first picked up the guitar, so that in itself isn't really new to me. I never figured out, or contemplated about why, and this I have learned now. The example from Twinkle-Twinkle-Little-Star and how the notes "wants to move to" a chord tone is also the kind of stuff I figured out on my own. Later I learned the terminology in classical harmony to talk about this phenomenon. I was merely confused about terminology. Here is his answer:

    ---

    The dominant chord is really a collection of musical pitches that point to the tonic chord. The idea of a dominant chord came much later than the idea of melodic pitches. Some melodic pitches are more consonant [seem settled and do not necessarily need to move], and some dissonant [feel like they need to resolve].


    In the key of C, the C is the most important pitch. G is the dominant and the second most important pitch. G melodically points back to C. [O Christmas Tree, Here Comes the Bride, etc]. E is the next most important pitch—it indicates modality: major or minor. The three consonant pitches in C are C, E & G. This also corresponds to the harmonic series. Blow in a pipe, stop harmonics on a string and you will always get these pitches. That is primarily why we experience them as consonant.


    All the other pitches point [want to move] back to those three primary pitches.


    The pitch A wants to resolve back to G. F points back to E. D and B point to C. The melodic pitches that point back to the C triad are: G, B, D, F, A. Add those together and they sound create a G9 chord, or maybe better understood—the G9 chord is made up of all the melodic pitches that point to the C triad. A G7 or G9 chord points to C.


    Pitches in a musical context have linear implications. The basic notes in the key are explained above. You can hear how each of those notes creates a dissonance or sense of motion by singing Twinkle in the key of C. C G A G F E D C.
    “Twinkle Twinkle” [C-G]. G wants to begin a journey back to C.
    “Little Star” [A-G]. The dissonant A wants to move back to G.
    “How I wonder” [F-E]. There is no doubt here that the F wants to resolve to E.
    “What you are” [D-C]. Where else would D want to go at that point?


    Check out hundreds of folk, patriotic, and Christmas songs and listen for this melodic principle. If you understand the melodic principle of pointing notes or voice-leading, chord symbols are then representations of the melodic implications.


    If you introduce a chromatic tone, it will want to point to a tone in the key, and that tone might point back to the tonic notes. Introduce a D# and it wants to resolve to E. Introduce an F# and it wants to resolve up to G. An A natural wants to resolve back to G [“little star”]. Play the A then Ab and the Ab wants to resolve to G. This is all independent of chords, but this voice-leading is the true source of chords. The G7 did not come first—it is a result of melodic pitches that point back to C.


    I hope this helps some.

  32. #31

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    Bautastein,

    you might be a good candidate for a few other books too, to use with your study of Bert's material...(man I'm contradicting myself a lot today, as this goes against my usual adage of "you can't learn jazz from a book")

    I suppose to me it sounds like you're not trying to learn jazz, but rather incorporate some of what jazz harmony offers into what you're already doing? So I feel this could be helpful.

    Mickey Baker volume one will get you using "jazz chords" in practical applications right out of the gate. No theory really, just practice.

    Ted Greene's "Chord Chemistry" will give you literally HUNDREDS of options for chord extensions, and his stuff is all about tension and resolution. This book is a reference book, NOT a method book. You could literally take a handful of ideas from it and work with them for a year or more.

  33. #32

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    What Jeff said.

    Also, I have no downer on Bert, he's a great musician. He's essentially a pianist but plays guitar too. I like this quite a lot!