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  1. #51

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    theoretical mumbo jumbo
    Oh, I don't know, I thought it was quite good!

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    Oh, I don't know, I thought it was quite good!
    There was nothing wrong with the original statement. You used a ton of words to "correct" a statement which wasn't incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by guitarboy View Post
    Actually I’m drifting already or just had too much coffee. The b7 of E7 is true to the key, the major 3rd (G#) is the color tone. Lol
    Yes and yes. If you mean the G# is the one accidental. "Color tone" is something which can mean other things, but there isn't anything here which needs correcting.

  4. #53

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    guitarboy -

    Oh, dear. No, the note names in chords are relative to the chord root's major scale. G# is simply the 3rd of the E major triad, so it's not a colour tone. The D note is the seventh note flattened of that scale, hence b7 - even though we write the chord E7 without the b sign.

    I used to get this wrong too because I thought the alterations had something to do with the chord's relation to the tune and its key. Ironically, it was Matt who put me right on it. It was some time ago now and those posts are lost in threads somewhere. It would be helpful to find them but god knows where they are.

    I told you, don't get involved with theory, it'll mess with your head :-)

  5. #54
    "Color tone" is another term of ambiguity, used by different teachers and players in different ways.

    It's not a thing. It's not codified. Therefore, it's not really something you can debate that way. We can all argue about who's right, but it's pointless.

    It's not a concrete term in music.





    I had teachers back in the day refer to the third as the color tone...
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 11-29-2019 at 01:11 PM.

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    guitarboy -

    Oh, dear. No, the note names in chords are relative to the chord root's major scale. G# is simply the 3rd of the E major triad, so it's not a colour tone. The D note is the seventh note flattened of that scale, hence b7 - even though we write the chord E7 without the b sign.

    I used to get this wrong too because I thought the alterations had something to do with the chord's relation to the tune and its key. Ironically, it was Matt who put me right on it. It was some time ago now and those posts are lost in threads somewhere. It would be helpful to find them but god knows where they are.

    I told you, don't get involved with theory, it'll mess with your head :-)
    Using the major scale reference to a chord's root is an option that some like - but is unncessary.

    I find more jazz and classical texts explain chords in terms of their intervals. Some use a stacked thirds description, others simply describe the qualities of intervals above the root (Major 3rd, Perfect 5th, Minor 7th, etc).

    I personally find that to be the simplist and most useful method that is resilient to symbol and tonal ambiguities.

  7. #56

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    If your going to get into playing the blues... learn how to Play I IV's.... The V chord is just for shaping the Form. And 12 bars is just the most common form.

    And even more to the point would be Tonic to Subdominant.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    After multiple paragraphs of theoretical mumbo jumbo, (honestly overcomplicating his original statement)? Really?

    "Leave it to someone else" ...."like you do"....?
    yeah
    to Ragman ....
    sorry man but I also think you over complicate things ...
    Last edited by pingu; 12-02-2019 at 09:31 PM.

  9. #58

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    Not wanting to get into this discussion, but I've been learning an acoustic blues from the 1930s that has moves that were common then but less common now. Fun to play.

    Here's Duke Robillard's version of it. I think he captures that spirit well. (Aretha Franklin did a very uptown version back in the '60s.)

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola