The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Trudgin‘ by Julian Lage is too much for me. Am I a pop guitarist? I love his playing, his tone and lots of his stuff and I really like those dark chords in this song, but this soloing???




    „Jimmy Guiffre’s “Trudgin’” triggers a mysterious lope through the creative depths of Lage’s imagination. Nasty chords and fluttering digressions test the strength of the guitarist’s portentous arrangement.“ review from „the arts fuse“.

    Help me understand this!

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    You don’t have to understand something to enjoy it

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    I think he means the he is not enjoying it, but is looking for justification based in understanding .. Which this time around also eludes him
    Hehe. Yes, I‘m far from joy listening to this, honestly. And I really love Julian Lage (okay, his music ) otherwise.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    I think he means the he is not enjoying it, but is looking for justification based in understanding .. Which this time around also eludes him
    You don’t have to understand something to not enjoy it.

  6. #5

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    Many years ago a girl I knew pulled a collection of Sylvia Plath's poems from my shelves & expressed surprise that any man could understand them.

    It had never occurred to me that I was supposed to - I said I just liked the way they sounded when I read them aloud.

    The wrong answer.

    I like the music tho'.... not sure which chords are the 'Nasty' ones ?
    Last edited by dot75; 09-08-2019 at 05:27 AM.

  7. #6

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    You know the older I get the less interested I am in understanding art, the more interested I am in having an emotional reaction. Which may change on repeated exposure.

    I think the emotional reaction is the only important one in art, everything afterwards is retroactive justification.

    If I really like something as a musician I can always dig into it later, maybe find a reason why. That’s analysis and it’s hard work.

    I like this recording. Lage often talks about Evan Parker and Derek Bailey. You can hear the influence here....

  8. #7

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    Stefan,
    I get the impression that the you think you're supposed to like this because it's "Jazz", and if you don't there must be something you don't understand.

    Listen to and play what appeals to you. You are not required to like something just because it's labeled "Jazz". The Jazz police are not coming for you just because you don't appreciate certain styles.

    I certainly don't get any enjoyment from this video at all. It's not something I would listen to for pleasure. However, my taste may change in the future.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack E Blue
    Stefan,
    I get the impression that the you think you're supposed to like this because it's "Jazz", and if you don't there must be something you don't understand.

    Listen to and play what appeals to you. You are not required to like something just because it's labeled "Jazz". The Jazz police are not coming for you just because you don't appreciate certain styles.

    I certainly don't get any enjoyment from this video at all. It's not something I would listen to for pleasure. However, my taste may change in the future.
    Hey, no I‘m supposed to like it since it‘s played by Julian Lage and it‘s true, I don‘t understand why a virtuous player like him plays something weird like that. And I‘m used to hear music for pleasure.

  10. #9
    I guess he just got through binge watching Longmire or something. :-)

    When I was very young, basically I had to UNDERSTAND things musically, especially on a melodic/harmonic level et cetera, to really get into them, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. But I didn't really get anything as much from just pure groove, basic tone, or emotional content etc. I was kind of oblivious to the raw, gutbucket aesthetic on most things for example. I never understood how anyone could LOVE a tune merely based on the great tone of the snare drum etc.

    If you want to be a nerd and analyze, it's tension/release in a basic ABA type structure. (Basically all about the drums , and everything else is extra credit.) :-)

    It's a groove tune, and harmonic and melodic is kind of secondary. It's very "in " in the beginning, in terms of groove and everyone being locked down to a basic straightahead feel . The middle section with the solo goes "out" rhythmically in bass and guitar at exactly the same time that it's basically going "out" harmonically. Then, back "in" and locked down rhythmically like the beginning.

    All about the drums and the feel. More groove-based, and gut-level raw angst than melodic anything. All that guitar stuff is just filler fluff on top. :-)

    (Takes nerd hat off.)

    Watch a couple of seasons of Longmire.

  11. #10

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    I don't understand much when it comes to jazz, but I like a lot of it, including that song.

  12. #11

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    I think it sounds like a frank Zappa song

  13. #12

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    Yeah, I love his tone! His improvising, not so much! After 1:25, it's like why did you start f'up with that fusion sounding shizzle??!

  14. #13
    Yep, his tone is fantastic as usual, a bit more dirty than before, it‘s the Gretsch.

  15. #14

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    Man, I like that. And that tone...drool.

    It's just a nasty blues. He's playing "noisy." Its atmosphere.

    Some of it is very reminiscent of Jim Campilongo.
    Last edited by mr. beaumont; 09-07-2019 at 03:21 PM.

  16. #15

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    I love it too. Great players can bring this off.

  17. #16

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    Sometimes you have gwarr clang twang boing.

    I like that Lage can transcend nice guitar playing and deconstruct it a bit....

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    I love it too. Great players can bring this off.
    Yes, I should have stipulated in my previous response that as much as I like it, it's definitely not the kind of thing I ever could (or would) try to pull off. But the really great players seem to be able to just randomly smack a guitar and cool sounds come out.

    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Sometimes you have gwarr clang twang boing.

    When you put it like that it sounds like Monk.

  19. #18

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    hmm.."understand art" Not sure thats part of the process..art in all its aspects has been asked the same basic question.."What is it" and the "hip" artist may reply..what would you like it to be?

    to me art that goes beyond the lines is expressing its true nature..a confined structure is just that..something in a prison..so to speak..

    Miles Davis-like him or not-evolved at every phase of his life and brought new life into stagnet structures..in fact removed the structures altogether...imagine driving on a freeway with out lane markers..thats a bit scary even to thik about it..as radical as Kind of Blue was in the day..Bitches Brew by comparison was beyond defined terms.."is that jazz?"..what if its not?

    the question you may ask.."will I understand it?" may beg the reply --Only if you want to!.. and that may take time..much like a Zen Koan..is it really about solving a puzzle..when there is no puzzle

  20. #19

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    This seems like the type of stuff you can get away with only after you’ve established yourself. The audience will cut you some slack. But I have to say, it’s pretty unlikeable.

  21. #20

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    He is increasingly popular with The Gear Page people. Perhaps he will provide some comfort for those who were disappointed with the new Tool album.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Sometimes you have gwarr clang twang boing.
    I know, right? My problem is I sometimes boing when I should gwarr.

  23. #22

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    I'm surprised so many people don't like this. It's really not that weird. It's a guy playing some skronky stuff on a minor chord vamp. Nobody owns Rain Dogs?

  24. #23

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    I mean, if someone is going to cover some Giuffre, and you are a player who honors history/tradition, it's almost obligatory to expand on the original free jazz and abstract concepts that Giufffre and his groups were pioneers in. Otherwise, why would you even do a cover 61 years later unless you give it the respect it deserves? Lage really "gets" it. Remember, Jim Hall was a Giuffre alumnus....


  25. #24

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    I found it hard to dance to it, unlike the old 30's/40's swing. I found it hard to bop to, or pop to; I could groove with it - a little, but maybe the material just didn’t provide Julian the best launch pad. Not something I'd listen to more than once.

    And to think, there was a time I intently listened to Albert Ayler.

    AKA

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Eff
    Trudgin‘ by Julian Lage is too much for me. Am I a pop guitarist? I love his playing, his tone and lots of his stuff and I really like those dark chords in this song, but this soloing???




    „Jimmy Guiffre’s “Trudgin’” triggers a mysterious lope through the creative depths of Lage’s imagination. Nasty chords and fluttering digressions test the strength of the guitarist’s portentous arrangement.“ review from „the arts fuse“.

    Help me understand this!
    Last edited by AKA; 09-08-2019 at 02:09 AM.

  26. #25

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    Good explanation about Jazz: