The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26
    That’s cool. The more I hear it and the more we‘re talking about the more I like at least a part of it. And I guess Julian‘s got a good sense of humor...

    It‘s right to leave the usual ways when it comes to abstract stuff like this. My point is my own restriction on guitar music. I like dissonances but only in an harmonic context. If free and bizarre Improvisation turns out to be just noise I‘m gone.

    But some parts are really cool and his tone and dynamic playin at the beginning and the end is breathtaking as usual.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    A day at the State Bureau of Music Classification

    -Ben, where am I supposed to file this recording? I don't think it's "Hip-Hop"...

    -If there's guitar, I always file it under "Country".

    -I know Ben, but no one is singing.

    -Really...how bizarre...I bet, there a double bass, right?

    -Yeah, thanks man, the double bass is a dead giveaway. It goes under "Jazz"... of course...I should have known...

    - Hold your horses, son. Never file anything under "jazz" if it's popular. Really important.

    -C'mon, Ben. No one is singing, how could it be popular?

    -Ok, "Jazz" it is then...Too bad, we haven't filed anything under "Country" this week...We have to show some progress...Are you sure it's not "Country", the boys aren't wearing Stetson hats or something?

    -Sorry Ben, how about "Progressive Rock"?

    -Martha says we can't use that genre anymore. Coffee?

    -No thanks, Ben. Got a heap of music on my desk that has to be classified before 5 pm....Like this, I'm not sure if this is music, listen.... just noise...

    -Martha says; whenever in doubt if the sound could be referred to as music, we have to put it under "Jazz". Apparently the paragraph was instituted already in 1959. It should have been revisited a long time ago, but nobody cares.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCat
    A day at the State Bureau of Music Classification

    -Ben, where am I supposed to file this recording? I don't think it's "Hip-Hop"...

    -If there's guitar, I always file it under "Country".

    -I know Ben, but no one is singing.

    -Really...how bizarre...I bet, there a double bass, right?

    -Yeah, thanks man, the double bass is a dead giveaway. It goes under "Jazz"... of course...I should have known...

    - Hold your horses, son. Never file anything under "jazz" if it's popular. Really important.

    -C'mon, Ben. No one is singing, how could it be popular?

    -Ok, "Jazz" it is then...Too bad, we haven't filed anything under "Country" this week...We have to show some progress...Are you sure it's not "Country", the boys aren't wearing Stetson hats or something?

    -Sorry Ben, how about "Progressive Rock"?

    -Martha says we can't use that genre anymore. Coffee?

    -No thanks, Ben. Got a heap of music on my desk that has to be classified before 5 pm....Like this, I'm not sure if this is music, listen.... just noise...

    -Martha says; whenever in doubt if the sound could be referred to as music, we have to put it under "Jazz". Apparently the paragraph was instituted already in 1959. It should have been revisited a long time ago, but nobody cares.
    That’s pretty much it haha

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    I'm surprised so many people don't like this. It's really not that weird. It's a guy playing some skronky stuff on a minor chord vamp. Nobody owns Rain Dogs?
    Yeah I certainly don’t find it unusual for Lage either.

  6. #30

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    I’m not much of a free jazz kind of guy. I like the trad stuff, and the more melodic side of everything else, especially if it has a great vamp (Dave Brubeck’s “Out of Time” is heavy in my rotation right now). I guess the reason I find this particular cover so every is that Lage is provided the tension and dissonance of several different instruments all by himself. So without the contrast in pitches, timbres, and tones of multiple instruments, it seems like something got lost in the mix. To me this is the Jazz equivalent of some of the weirder stuff by Steve Vai; I can recognize the talent and genius even if it isn’t particularly enjoyable to my ear. I wouldn’t buy it, or choose it, but if it came up in a random playlist I would be tempted to skip to the next track if I had control 8n a group setting, and would almost certainly do so if solo in my house or car.

  7. #31

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    Stefan -

    Sometimes I don't understand jazz
    That's because it's not really free jazz at all, it's a not very good attempt at extreme outside stuff by someone who doesn't normally play it. Real free jazz is a mindset all to its own and Julian hasn't really got that.

    This is more like the real thing, love it or hate it.



    And this could have been the most awful hash... but it isn't.


  8. #32

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    There 's a whole genre of modern jazz that sounds like that. Modern improvisational ideas, lots of dissonance, out playing, some free stuff. It's a matter of taste. I thought Lage Lunds last cd was a bit like that too..

    Not one of my most favorite players, Julian Lage, but just the passion for the guitar and the creativity are enough for me to enjoy his playing. He's also done a remarkable job arranging and composing on some of his cds..

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    You know the older I get the less interested I am in understanding art, the more interested I am in having an emotional reaction. Which may change on repeated exposure.

    I think the emotional reaction is the only important one in art, everything afterwards is retroactive justification.

    If I really like something as a musician I can always dig into it later, maybe find a reason why. That’s analysis and it’s hard work.

    I like this recording. Lage often talks about Evan Parker and Derek Bailey. You can hear the influence here....
    I agree with most of what you are saying here. I think the emotional side is what draws people to music in the first place. I certainly didn't take up guitar because I was fascinated in learning how the whole tone scale can work for dominant chord substitutions. It was because something hit me in the gut and I needed to pursue that feeling again and again. If emotion isn't the dominant factor then why not just become engineers, biologists or math wizards since there are more than enough interesting intellectual problems to be investigated and understood in those realms.

    That said, when I was younger I did listen to a great deal of music I did not like (emotionally) because it was "good for me".... That meant listening to free jazz, 20th Century classical composers and even Monk. Over time, I did come to like most of it - Monk especially. I think this is because your aesthetic sense and inner emotional world is something that changes and develops if you challenge it. I now hear the emotion in the music that I didn't recognize at an earlier stage of life. It is a hermeneutic process where you listen to something, think this is terrible, but then you grab onto some thread in the music that excites you and brings you back. After some more listens you hear something else and so on...eventually you enter a larger world where stuff you disliked starts to move you in unexpected ways.

    I remember at 12 or so, going to see Ed Bickert, Don Thompson and Terry Clarke in Toronto. They started blazing away on some tunes, trading solos etc and I just could not hear or relate to what was going on. How did they know where they were in the tune? Where is the tune? I understood the ballads but that was about it. Still that got me hooked on Ed and I listened to the records (hating a lot of it) but eventually I understood and could relate to it emotionally and intellectually. Glad I did that work.

    All this to say we might not want to overdraw distinctions between the emotional and intellectual side since they do relate but just in complicated ways.d

  10. #34

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    I like it very much, what I don't like is the mix. Guitar is too loud, bass too low... but that's highly subjective like everything.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Eff
    Trudgin‘ by Julian Lage is too much for me. Am I a pop guitarist? I love his playing, his tone and lots of his stuff and I really like those dark chords in this song, but this soloing???




    „Jimmy Guiffre’s “Trudgin’” triggers a mysterious lope through the creative depths of Lage’s imagination. Nasty chords and fluttering digressions test the strength of the guitarist’s portentous arrangement.“ review from „the arts fuse“.

    Help me understand this!
    This is the definition of contemporary jazz music in one clip. It sounds like something unreleased from Bill Frisell’s ”Lookout For Hope”. The only thing we have to understand in this case is the power of free artistry. There are certain frames to know about, but in the end it’s up to you how to treat them.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberoo
    I agree with most of what you are saying here. I think the emotional side is what draws people to music in the first place. I certainly didn't take up guitar because I was fascinated in learning how the whole tone scale can work for dominant chord substitutions. It was because something hit me in the gut and I needed to pursue that feeling again and again. If emotion isn't the dominant factor then why not just become engineers, biologists or math wizards since there are more than enough interesting intellectual problems to be investigated and understood in those realms.

    That said, when I was younger I did listen to a great deal of music I did not like (emotionally) because it was "good for me".... That meant listening to free jazz, 20th Century classical composers and even Monk. Over time, I did come to like most of it - Monk especially. I think this is because your aesthetic sense and inner emotional world is something that changes and develops if you challenge it. I now hear the emotion in the music that I didn't recognize at an earlier stage of life. It is a hermeneutic process where you listen to something, think this is terrible, but then you grab onto some thread in the music that excites you and brings you back. After some more listens you hear something else and so on...eventually you enter a larger world where stuff you disliked starts to move you in unexpected ways.

    I remember at 12 or so, going to see Ed Bickert, Don Thompson and Terry Clarke in Toronto. They started blazing away on some tunes, trading solos etc and I just could not hear or relate to what was going on. How did they know where they were in the tune? Where is the tune? I understood the ballads but that was about it. Still that got me hooked on Ed and I listened to the records (hating a lot of it) but eventually I understood and could relate to it emotionally and intellectually. Glad I did that work.

    All this to say we might not want to overdraw distinctions between the emotional and intellectual side since they do relate but just in complicated ways.d
    Yes I think as soon as if posted that post your points above occurred to me.

    But I think that’s true of loads of stuff. I mean how much did you like your first beer?

    And in general with, say, food, the more cuisines you are exposed to, and the more flavours, the more open you become.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCat
    A day at the State Bureau of Music Classification

    -Ben, where am I supposed to file this recording? I don't think it's "Hip-Hop"...

    -If there's guitar, I always file it under "Country".

    -I know Ben, but no one is singing.

    -Really...how bizarre...I bet, there a double bass, right?

    -Yeah, thanks man, the double bass is a dead giveaway. It goes under "Jazz"... of course...I should have known...

    - Hold your horses, son. Never file anything under "jazz" if it's popular. Really important.

    -C'mon, Ben. No one is singing, how could it be popular?

    -Ok, "Jazz" it is then...Too bad, we haven't filed anything under "Country" this week...We have to show some progress...Are you sure it's not "Country", the boys aren't wearing Stetson hats or something?

    -Sorry Ben, how about "Progressive Rock"?

    -Martha says we can't use that genre anymore. Coffee?

    -No thanks, Ben. Got a heap of music on my desk that has to be classified before 5 pm....Like this, I'm not sure if this is music, listen.... just noise...

    -Martha says; whenever in doubt if the sound could be referred to as music, we have to put it under "Jazz". Apparently the paragraph was instituted already in 1959. It should have been revisited a long time ago, but nobody cares.
    Good one!

  14. #38

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    Not one of my favorite Lage tunes. Just listening, it sounds like he's modulating between minor and major.

  15. #39

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    very nice..would love the see Lage in this setting . more Welly..

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    You know the older I get the less interested I am in understanding art, the more interested I am in having an emotional reaction. Which may change on repeated exposure.

    I think the emotional reaction is the only important one in art, everything afterwards is retroactive justification.

    If I really like something as a musician I can always dig into it later, maybe find a reason why. That’s analysis and it’s hard work.

    I like this recording. Lage often talks about Evan Parker and Derek Bailey. You can hear the influence here....


    I would change a word 'emotional' to 'direct or unconventional' (as opposed to 'preoccupied, preconceived, too concious)..

    liking is not purely emotional thing... one just has to trust one's sense of truth, one's perception....

    I think perception of art (as well as creation) is much about the courage of being yourself... we do not notice it in everyday life... one has to have good instinct not to be caught in the trap

    PS
    I do not like the word 'emotional' becasue in everyday usage it oversimplifies things too much... (People tend to say 'music is more about emition' but I do not thing music is more emotional that literature for example... I think it is superficial... like you know 'good wallpaper can be emotional' but 'good artistic painting is not emotional' - it is mind, soul... )

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Eff
    Trudgin‘ by Julian Lage is too much for me. Am I a pop guitarist? I love his playing, his tone and lots of his stuff and I really like those dark chords in this song, but this soloing???
    If you enjoy something, try to optionally understand it or just listen zillion times, and look for similar or more... Searching, listening and remaining open will help you enjoy more and more an wider spectrum of music and enjoying something what you definitely did not enjoyed before. Patience is inevitable, investing a lot of enjoyed time too.

    ***

    I think make (force!) enjoy something (either by understanding, or in any other way) is not the way.

    (It is not even a minor problem if you do not enjoy Lage's one or more performance, or even his whole work of life. Maybe he also do not enjoy it to relisten :-), but it seems he enjoyed it to play, because he is continuously smiling, which is at least should make us unsure, the music supposed to be dark...)

  18. #42

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    Like and appreciate what you can and leave the rest be. You get what you get at a certain point in time. Not all music is for each and every individual, nothing wrong with neither person nor music.

    I'm not keen on that performance. I'm not sure what it is exactly. I think perhaps Lage's tendency to go for overt beauty make him pull the punches when taking it out and going for angular. It feels somehow academic to me. ymmv, imho, etc

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    because he is continuously smiling, which is at least should make us unsure, the music supposed to be dark...)
    I find it a bit creepy.

    See also Brian Cox.

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    he is continuously smiling, which is at least should make us unsure
    "If you can't convince them, confuse them!"

    (This is what performing artists and politicians have in common.)

    See also Tony Blair

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by voxsss
    very nice..would love the see Lage in this setting . more Welly..
    for awhile there I thought this was a "shreds" video....

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCat
    "If you can't convince them, confuse them!"

    (This is what performing artists and politicians have in common.)

    See also Tony Blair
    I am glad my diplomatic message went through about that particular performance :-)

  23. #47

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    I liked it. Do I get a cookie?

  24. #48

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    Here's my take on it



    I go splodonk towards the end.

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Here's my take on it



    I go splodonk towards the end.
    I gladiff your splodonkierey. Vootie!

  26. #50

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    The older I get, the more I'm convinced what makes a person a creative person is how they react to things they don't fully understand.