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  1. #1

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    How do you typically handle these, either in a comping situation or soloing situation? Thinking of tunes like I Love You, What is This Thing Called Love, etc. I also struggle in the break to kick off a chorus in these tunes. Instead of trying to setup the m7b5 is better to just stay on the tonic until the form starts over?

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  3. #2

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    Yeah take 'I love you' for example in F

    are you asking

    "how do I handle a turnaround to the first chord Gmin5b5" ?

    or "what do I play on the first chord Gmin7b5"

    sorry just want to be clear .....
    (i feel like a git now)

    if its the second question
    I'd try Bbminor6 type stuff on the Gmin7b5
    I find it easier to think of stuff to play on the iv
    i can't think of much ii7b5 stuff ....
    Last edited by pingu; 07-25-2019 at 07:35 PM.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    Yeah take 'I love you' for example in F

    are you asking

    "how do I handle a turnaround to the first chord Gmin5b5" ?

    or "what do I play on the first chord Gmin7b5"

    sorry just want to be clear .....
    (i feel like a git now)

    if its the second question
    I'd try Bbminor6 type stuff on the Gmin7b5
    I find it easier to think of stuff to play on the iv
    i can't think of much ii7b5 stuff ....
    The first one. What to play, comping or soloing, on the last two bars of the tune to get you back to the top. Especially with breaks, anything I play to lead to the Gm7b5, like D alt or its tritone sub, seems to sound odd. Something about the resolution to that minor ii-V cadence sounds odd coming from the big I major

  5. #4

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    Yes I do feel that way too ....

    i just think/play Fmajor stuff up to
    the Gmin7b5 chord

    sorry no great revelation here man
    let me know if you do discover something cool

    i just tried some
    |Fmaj. |F7. | stuff
    which ought to get you to Bb-9
    Subbing over the Gmin7b5 chord

    ought to work but didn't sound great
    oh well sorry , I feel you

  6. #5

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    For the last 2 bars of C you can play back and forth moves like:

    C F7 | C ||

    C Fm7 | C ||

    C Bb9 | C ||

    C Fm7 Bb9 | C ||

    C G7+ | C ||

    C Db9#11 | C ||

    C B7#9 | C ||

    C Bo C C#o | Dm7 D#o C/E ||

    etc.

    You can also reharm the C melody note with a different starting chord
    and then work your way back to a C chord within the 2 measures.

    Dbma7b5 Gm11 | C ||

    Dbma7b5 Fm6 | C ||

    Ebma6 Dbma7 | C ||

    Abma9 Dbma7b5 | C ||

    Bb9 A7#9 | Ab7b5 Gm11b5 C ||

    etc.

  7. #6

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    Yeah I just tonicise it like I would any chord. Dominant chord a fifth or half step above.

  8. #7

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    So I’ve had a muck around and I think minor ii-V into half dim sounds good (that’s a common sound right? iiim7b5 VI7b9 iim7b5 V7b9)

    So Cmaj7 Am7b5 D7b9 going into the top sounds good to me.

  9. #8

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    I have seen some suggest that you flip the usual I VI II V turnaround round to II V I VI as an intro in this situation.

    So, / Gm7b5 C7alt / F-6 Dm7b5 (or D7alt) / Gm7b5 ....

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    So I’ve had a muck around and I think minor ii-V into half dim sounds good (that’s a common sound right? iiim7b5 VI7b9 iim7b5 V7b9)

    So Cmaj7 Am7b5 D7b9 going into the top sounds good to me.
    ---------------
    are you in F or C Christian ?
    can we all do our suggestions in F please ?
    sorry to be bossy .... It's just for simplicity
    --------------

    how about
    for last 2 bars of I love you (in F )
    Subbing for 2 bars of F
    |Amin. |D7. |

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by bleakanddivine
    I have seen some suggest that you flip the usual I VI II V turnaround round to II V I VI as an intro in this situation.

    So, / Gm7b5 C7alt / F-6 Dm7b5 (or D7alt) / Gm7b5 ....
    I do like that .....
    But ....
    you don't get to arrive 'home' on beat one of bar 31 (of 32 bar tune)
    which may be cool or not ....

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    I do like that .....
    But ....
    you don't get to arrive 'home' on beat one of bar 31 (of 32 bar tune)
    which may be cool or not ....
    I like that! Forward motion.

  13. #12

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    Where the m7b5 fits in a functional progression matters, too. If we're transposing everything to the key of F we could see

    Gm7b5 (I Love You)
    Bm7b5 (Stella, I thought About You)
    Em7b5 (Old Folks, I Didn't Know What Time It Was)

    PK

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    Yeah take 'I love you' for example in F

    are you asking

    "how do I handle a turnaround to the first chord Gmin5b5" ?

    or "what do I play on the first chord Gmin7b5"

    sorry just want to be clear .....
    (i feel like a git now)

    if its the second question
    I'd try Bbminor6 type stuff on the Gmin7b5
    I find it easier to think of stuff to play on the iv
    i can't think of much ii7b5 stuff ....
    I do the same thing -- think Bbmin6 over a Gmin7b5.

    I tend to be chromatic about the 7th of Bbmin6 -- play Ab or A or both, all is grist for my mill.

    But if I'm emphasizing or holding the note, it's more likely to be an Anat; that means I'm playing a Bb melodic minor scale, which corresponds to a G locrian with a major2 (the Anat) over Gmin7b5.

    I guess I take the long way to wind up where people often directly go to.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    ---------------
    are you in F or C Christian ?
    can we all do our suggestions in F please ?
    sorry to be bossy .... It's just for simplicity
    --------------

    how about
    for last 2 bars of I love you (in F )
    Subbing for 2 bars of F
    |Amin. |D7. |
    Eh? Clearly I thought we were doing a different tune.

    Me brains melted.

    Tbh it all works the same Am7b5 D7b5 going to Gm7b5.

    Now go about your business and stop moaning!

    I’m thinking Woody n You here, nothin terribly clever.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    I do like that .....
    But ....
    you don't get to arrive 'home' on beat one of bar 31 (of 32 bar tune)
    which may be cool or not ....
    Peter Bernstein is a believer in this....

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by pingu
    ---------------
    are you in F or C Christian ?
    can we all do our suggestions in F please ?
    sorry to be bossy .... It's just for simplicity
    --------------

    how about
    for last 2 bars of I love you (in F )
    Subbing for 2 bars of F
    |Amin. |D7. |
    Actually on reflection my answer to this post is ‘yes’

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Peter Bernstein is a believer in this....
    Yeah is it like. ii V iii VI ?
    Peter's got big ears
    i mean that in a positive way .... !
    love him

    my ears are much more pedestrian
    I'm still working on hearing the basic stuff in standards
    tonight I noticed these changes from 'After you've gone' in D
    bars 23 &24
    |D F#7 |Bm Bo | D/A etc

    are very similar in function to ......
    |D F#7 |G G#o | D/A etc

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Eh? Clearly I thought we were doing a different tune.

    Me brains melted.

    Tbh it all works the same Am7b5 D7b5 going to Gm7b5.

    Now go about your business and stop moaning!

    I’m thinking Woody n You here, nothin terribly clever.
    I love a good moan

    i've just realised I'm a pedant
    (I already knew I was a Luddite)

    thanks
    Pingu the pedant (in Bb)

  20. #19

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    Back when I had more time on my hands, I transcribed the whole Joe Pass I Love You solo - 18 pages! - from the album, Intercontinental and noticed that he takes a pretty static approach to the turnaround. It's usually just F major and in many cases, next to nothing is played there. Perhaps Pass felt that there was enough tension with the following ii7b5 that it wasn't necessary to provide any more. Many of the lines JP plays over G-7b5 C7b9 throughout the tune clearly outline Bb-7 so my feeling is that he's simply thinking I (F) to iv (Bb-7).

    Whatever approach you take, the trick is to work on making a seamless move into the next chorus. For instance, here's a typical bop turnaround line to the ii chord that's tweaked at the end to accomodate the ii7b5:

    Turnarounds for tunes that start on a m7b5 chord?-turnaround-figure-jpeg