The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Two of the notes in the chord are the first and fifth, which would not be the ones subject to temperament error. The other two are the major third and major seventh. In equal temperament both of these are slightly sharp, so bending is the wrong direction.

    A few minutes adjusting the tuners to determine if this chord can be made to sound "sweet" convinces me that this is not a temperament problem.

    I think my "combo-cadence" idea from post #21 is more on the right track. The only way I have found to make it sound nice is to play it as an arpeggio with the two middle notes reversed so as to separate the two harmonies of the combo cadence to be heard as a proper cadence.
    Last edited by pauln; 12-03-2018 at 03:14 AM.

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  3. #27

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    Even with C-B-A-G bass line against C major.. the B is dissonant just not that strong.
    The whole line brings us into teh functional context of the C major key...
    B -E- G - C sounds like V6 (first inversion of G) with suspended 4th and 6th
    or another way of hearing it in context is B just a passing not to A and the chords are C major to A min7

    The simplest way though - and quite common in classical musica and theory in that case - is just to look at it as one chord and diatonic descenfdant bass line.. that is too look at it separely.
    In basso continuo they would use in that case a signature of a triad over the 1st bass note and then just dashes over the others - meaning repeat the same chord...

    It is impoertant because in that case they did not think of B - C as of an interval of b9.. it would be way overcomplicated and make no sense.
    it was just a bass line... functionally nothing changes.



    As per temperament - I partly agree with Vladan... but in context of funcitonal tonality it would not take away a dissonance though it can make a movement smoother.
    Again temperament depends much on the musical language... above I described a few possible way of hearing it withing fucntional context and each of this way would require a little different temperament of B.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauln
    Two of the notes in the chord are the first and fifth, which would not be the ones subject to temperament error. The other two are the major third and major seventh. In equal temperament both of these are slightly sharp, so bending is the wrong direction.

    A few minutes adjusting the tuners to determine if this chord can be made to sound "sweet" convinces me that this is not a temperament problem.
    Since this is about intervals and particular voicing (certain strings pressed against certain frets) on guitar, the key is irrelevant. Why not make intervals work relative to the note that need smallest amount of adjusting?
    There are other possibilities. For example, In a sense, C on top is not the root, but is 14th. Going by simple ratios it would not be a perfect octave ...

    It is quite possible that it is not temperament problem. Nevertheless, slightly bending note B on 4th string already made quite an impact. Messing with other strings and combinations, produced some good results, too.

    >EDIT: Also, there are no 5ths in that voicing. It is made of two 4ths, that are flat 6/ aug 5th apart, or two aug 5ths/ flat 6ths, fourth apart.
    Last edited by Vladan; 12-03-2018 at 05:40 AM.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    Since this is about intervals and particular voicing (certain strings pressed against certain frets) on guitar, the key is irrelevant. Why not make intervals work relative to the note that need smallest amount of adjusting?
    There are other possibilities. For example, In a sense, C on top is not the root, but is 14th. Going by simple ratios it would not be a perfect octave ...

    It is quite possible that it is not temperament problem. Nevertheless, slightly bending note B on 4th string already made quite an impact. Messing with other strings and combinations, produced some good results, too.

    >EDIT: Also, there are no 5ths in that voicing. It is made of two 4ths, that are flat 6/ aug 5th apart.
    The chord was introduced as the root being C... where G would be the fifth, but if the root is changed, well yes...

    Cmaj7 /B
    Db m7 #11 add 7
    D6 sus4 add 9 add #13
    Eb aug add b9 add 13
    E5 add #9 add b13
    F maj7 #11 sus2
    Gb 7 #11 b9 sus4
    G sus4 add b11 add 13
    Ab maj7 b13 #9
    Am 9
    Bb sus2 add b9 add #11 add 13
    B sus4 add b13 add b9

    ... but in fact I agree and like thinking of it as a pair of fourths!

  6. #30

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    ll00l0l -

    I don't really know 'why' although I'm sure there are very good scientific explanations as to why some intervals are less pleasing to our ears than others.

    The same could be said of colours, tastes, smells, and so on.

    I'm sure that notes close together sort of meld into one sound whereas those an octave or more apart don't so well.

    C/C# sounds interesting together but not when the C# is 13 half-steps away. Mind you, C on the 5th string and C# on the 3rd sounds better than the same interval played an octave higher. Lower notes aren't so grating.

    The other thing is context, as has been pointed out. A CM7 played xxxx9988 sounds more or less reasonable. And slash chords like B/C are used a great deal.

    I suppose it depends what sort of answer you're looking for - scientific, philosophical (in terms of qualia), or otherwise.